Harry and Draco -- But the little girls understand

[themostepotente]

WARNING -- SERIOUS FANDOM RANT

Is anyone as sick of pointless, plotless, inane, and tritely written Harry/Draco like I am?

I mean seriously, why the fuck do most people who attempt to write this pairing insist on following the SAME GODDAMN BORING outline?

Sound familiar?

Boy meets boy
Boy hates boy
Boy crushes on boy
Boy ends up fucking boy
Boy angsts
Boy still hates boy

Lather. Rinse. Repeat.

What...the...fuck?

What about this pairing zaps the creativity from some people?

Where is it written that *gasp* established H/D with plot is a big fucking no no?

I don't profess to be the best H/D shipper. Far the fuck from it, but at least my H/D stories were different from the norm.

Oh fucking wheee, let's use the same fucking story and just change the kink. I see it all the time. I see the same shitty H/D authors being recced.

Fuck this.

If you hate seeing this as much as I do, voice your opinion. To the creative H/D writers - you KNOW who you are. Give me a shout out, hmm?

If you hate this pairing, tell us all why.

Really disgusted.

--P

Comments

[tarie.livejournal.com]

Word. This is SO going to be added to QQ tomorrow. Oh yes.

[themostepotente.livejournal.com]

Thank you! Spread the gospel, sistah!

[zhonnika.livejournal.com]

AMEN AMEN AMEN AMEN AMEN!

OR THIS:

Draco is a witty/wonderful/snaky/beautiful git that everyone loves
Harry is a whiny bitch that "Oh, Draco." *giggles*
Draco comes down from on high to insult/flirt
Harry *swoons*


*JEN HURLS*

ARGH I hate wimpy, takes shit!harry. WHERE IN CANON would Harry swoon at Draco? Tell me?

Please please stop this before I take your computers away.

[themostepotente.livejournal.com]

Please please stop this before I take your computers away.

I say we sledgehammer them. That way there's no getting them back.

Oh, and I heard you applied at the_leaky!

[scarah2.livejournal.com]

I hate this pairing. Dunno why really, I haven't even read it that much. I read one I did like once, but it was humour where they had to get married due to a binding magical contract. I wish I could recall what/who/where but maybe someone will know what I'm talking about.

Oh there was another I liked but they were with Snape too. That's different! :)

[sharklabyrinth.livejournal.com]

Could it be amanuensis1's "The Worst Happiest Day of His Life" ??

And YES, most of the H/D out there is so preposterously OOC that I can never take them seriously enough to enjoy them :)

[melpemone.livejournal.com]

I hate this pairing. When I first joined fandom, I read it, but I got burned out on the same damn plot over and over again even back then, and quickly jumped ship. It takes a VERY heavily recced H/D to get me to read it now. It's a shame, because I'm sure it's got potential, but all the formulaic writers have sucked the life out of it.

I'm in total agreement. Thank you.

[themostepotente.livejournal.com]

I'm just as burned out on Sirius/Remus. I find that pairing totally boring and avoid it all costs now.

No -- thank you for joining our crusade!

[biichan.livejournal.com]

God, you're so right.

It was the first slash I read in this fandom and while I still am totally in love with the idea of there being slashy subtext between the two, I can't read an unrecc'd story because they're ALL THE SAME THING!!!!

(That said, I'm hoping that my one foray (http://www.livejournal.com/community/pornish_pixies/159505.html) into writing H/D wasn't as bad as some of the others. At least it has Dark Lord Harry...)

[themostepotente.livejournal.com]

Oooh, yes -- I do recall reading that.

You write beautifully, so there is no danger of that.

[maeglinyedi.livejournal.com]

No offense meant, but your rant is as repetitive as the stories you're ranting about. Yes, some people like cliches. Yes, some people even like fanon cliches. So what? Whatever you're saying, has all been said before, for Harry/Draco, for Snape/Harry, for Sirius/Remus and for every other popular pairing out there. Don't like it? Don't read. Live and let live. Write and let write. Just my 2 knuts. :-)

[themostepotente.livejournal.com]

I think H/D has the biggest stigma for shit fic though.

And yeah, I'm just ranting. You get to a point where you just get so fed up.

No offense taken where none is meant, Maeglin :-)

[caesia390.livejournal.com]

Well, I don't hate this pairing, but I avoid it like crazy. Because there are only so many places it can go, and I don't patricularly care to visit any of them.

Destination 1 - ye olde angerfuck, so eloquently summarized in your post. Yeah yeah been there done that. I was in the GW fandom prior to HP, so I feel like I've read as many variations of pretty boys fucking as there damn well can be. If I need a fix for that, I'll head to the experts.

Destination 2 - Angerfuck to the max, aka obsessed Harry, aka established relationship. Ok, I read one fic like this, and it was really good, but it disturbed the hell out of me. Because the only way I can see canon Harry and/or Draco actually choosing to spend prolonged periods of time with the other is if one of them is seriously round the bend. And that's just unhappy. ;_; I'm a Snapefan, thankyouverymuch, I do not need any more angst in my life.

Destination 3 - romance. ..........Ew.......... My kneejerk reaction to this concept is to imagine fourteen-year-old girls gushing about how hot Harry and Draco are and shouldn't they be in luuuuuuuuuuuuuuvvv.

What it boils down to is that the Harry and Draco in my head just don't get along. And it's not a misunderstanding, it's not buried passion, it's that they genuinely dislike each other. In the very best of circumstances, they'd respect each other enough to leave the other alone. In canon, each one uses the other as an outlet for frustration about circumstance or family. So I could see an angryfuck, just for the hell of it. And then they still wouldn't like each other. Nothing particularly interesting going on there... I'll take a Snarry or some 2x1 bondagefic any day.

[themostepotente.livejournal.com]

*chuckles* Your post made me laugh, Caesia.

I do believe established relationship is possible. Hell, it's no different from established Snarry.

This just takes a skilled writer who's willing to take the time to get there. It just shouldn't happen overnight.

[froda-baggins.livejournal.com]

I think I might have to take maeglinyedi's stance here, and ask what's the point? Well of course you can vent all you like, I know as well as anyone how cathartic it can be, but it won't make any difference. *shrug*

Personally, I don't read the pairing because I don't see sexual tension between them. Sometimes a cigar really is just a cigar.

That, and I think Draco is probably one of the most boring and two-dimensional characters in the series, and couldn't care less about him.

[themostepotente.livejournal.com]

Personally, I don't read the pairing because I don't see sexual tension between them. Sometimes a cigar really is just a cigar.

That could be said of any pairing, really. Because I just don't see anything sexual period where Dumbledore is concerned and some people just live to pair him with Snape.

But like I was explaining to Maeglin, I finally hit a point where I said 'fucking enough already.'

Thanks for commenting :-)

[chuffing.livejournal.com]

That set-up you have there is totally spot on. That's all there is to choose from. It's amazing when I find something that differs from the pattern. Hell, I've written fic like that because I knew it was what they wanted. They don't want AU, they don't want you to take a chance with styling, they don't want violence or infidelity or anything real. They want Harlequin romance meets gay nightclub meets turn the characters into fucking women. Not a fan of whiny Harry and I'm so pretty Draco unless it's humour or a parody. I love Draco, but he is a bitch. A pathetic, insecure little bitch, not some god of sex. More pissed off Harry fic needs to be out there, as well.

Where is it written that *gasp* established H/D with plot is a big fucking no no?

If you find out where it is, point me over there. I like the build-up tension to that sort of a story, but there's only so many I can read. Why can't they already be together? Why does the romance have to be the be-all and end-all of the story?

I see the same shitty H/D authors being recced.

*wonders if I am one who recs and writes them*
Yeah, most likely one who writes them heh. It's hard to rec good fic in this ship. There is an overabundance of fic being written, but to weed through it all in only a few hours a day is a task for I don't know who. If you can point me at any good new authors you come across, please dear god do so. I need all the help I can get. Shutting up now.

[themostepotente.livejournal.com]

Oh no, honey - you do an excellent job reccing. You're very dedicated to this pairing and it shows.

If I come across anything to the contrary, you will be the first to know.

If you could -- maybe you could make mention of this thread in your journal?

[mimbulus.livejournal.com]

I'm not an H/D shipper, I mean, I don't mind reading the occasional H/D fic (or writing the occasional H/D fic), but I'm not a shipper.

Boy meets boy
Boy hates boy
Boy crushes on boy
Boy ends up fucking boy
Boy angsts
Boy still hates boy

Very familiar.

I prefer reading fics in which the characters are older and they're in an established relationship already. I love reading older and established relationship fics in every ship. It's a good way to avoid first-time or falling-in-love cliches. There's something annoying about Draco moaning "Oh, God, POTTER!" and then Harry saying, during the supposedly best sex either of them had ever had in their lifes (because they're each other's One Twu Wuv!!!11!) - "Harry, call me Harry."

This is what happens when characters call each other by their last names. Maybe it's a cultural thing, but I never call *anybody* by their last name. Nobody does. At least, not that I've heard.

And then there's a long period of angst and woe and everybody's unhappy and calling each other by their last name again.

Oh, and always there's some mention of the Shrieking Shack incident in PoA. Together with the realization that Harry Potter has an invisibility cloak.

After reading a few dozen such fics, it really gets a bit boring. But I guess every ship has it's cliches.

[themostepotente.livejournal.com]

One Twu Wuv!!!11!

ROFL!

After reading a few dozen such fics, it really gets a bit boring. But I guess every ship has it's cliches.

True enough.

[balfrog.livejournal.com]

Hey,
I rec this all over the place, but I'll do it again-

Blood and Nails (http://au.geocities.com/calmardaa/fics/BAN.htm) by Calmardaa.

Established relationship with plot. o yeah, the plot. and the action.
:)

And there's frulie's Amalgam (http://www.livejournal.com/users/frulie/12875.html);
again,

nice established relationship, and action every hour, on the hour.

And tons of others with plot AND getting the romance started at the same time.

pandarus is putting up bits of the sequel to Invisible to See on her lj- plotting, funniness, and thousands of extras.
...........................

I do love the cliches, too.
Though,understand the frustration at the predictability.
Sure, a lot of newer writers cut their teeth on the H/D fandom, but hey, they need to get it out somewhere.

And turn a cliche around, and you have plot-
under a good deal of neat characterization, setting, funny/ neat/ poignant turns of phrase.

And after OotP, where the H/D reader might need some reprieve from a good established relationship,
I'd like to see some good reasoning, plot, psychological plausibility in what *might* keep these boys together.

At the end of the day is it just apples and oranges, milk or dark choc? You ship what you ship, read what you read, take a break, skip into another ship, and still come back.

[themostepotente.livejournal.com]

Sure, a lot of newer writers cut their teeth on the H/D fandom, but hey, they need to get it out somewhere.

Why couldn't it be Snack? *pouts*

Oooh, recs! Thankee!

[maruchina.livejournal.com]

Word! I'm more of a Snarry shipper these days (haven't read a fic in ages, though), but I started out as a Harry/Draco shipper. I still love ivyblossom's fics, but I haven't seen a lot of good H/D lately. It's all the same.

I'm a sucker for fics where Draco obsesses over Harry, as that's what he does in canon, too. I'm not particulary charmed by the fics that characterize Harry as a giggly fawning schoolboy, though. Did these "authors" ever read the HP books?

[themostepotente.livejournal.com]

I'm a sucker for fics where Draco obsesses over Harry, as that's what he does in canon, too. I'm not particulary charmed by the fics that characterize Harry as a giggly fawning schoolboy, though. Did these "authors" ever read the HP books?

A giggly, fawning schoolboy? In this fandom? Never! [insert sarcasm here]

I'll have to check out Ivy's fics.

[miss-serpentine.livejournal.com]

I just don't read H/D anymore unless I get a good rec. Too much of it is the same old crap.

[themostepotente.livejournal.com]

Starting to get there myself.

[bowdlerized.livejournal.com]

Oh, yes. I have nothing against the ship itself, but most of the fic I've read is so run of the mill that I tend to avoid reading H/D.

I'm actually (slowly) writing an H/D fic now, and one of the hardest things is trying to do something new with it, since it seems that everything's been done before. Though of course, it's also hard to avoid the cliches when you haven't read enough H/D to be aware of what they all are.

...and on another note, hello! Nice to meet you. :)

[themostepotente.livejournal.com]

I'm actually (slowly) writing an H/D fic now, and one of the hardest things is trying to do something new with it, since it seems that everything's been done before. Though of course, it's also hard to avoid the cliches when you haven't read enough H/D to be aware of what they all are.

Oooh, look forward to reading it!

...and on another note, hello! Nice to meet you. :)

The pleasure is all mine :-)

[ladyflowdi.livejournal.com]

I was just saying this to someone else today: I think various sections of our fandom need someone with cojones to just go out there and break the mold. A lot of slash fandom has become very set in the cliches that the breakout writers built when the fandom first started, and not just in the Harry/Draco part of fandom, but even the Snarry, or Sirius/Remus, or Lucius/Snape, ect ect etc. What the fandom needs is fresh ideas, but I don't see that happening until after book 6 comes out for various reasons--many of which center on the odd, hate-y comments JKR has made about the Slytherins.

[themostepotente.livejournal.com]

Just out of curiosity -- what clichés do Lucius/Severus follow?

[tagore.livejournal.com]

Right on right on right on RIGHT ON! Preach it, sistah.

A not-so-little-girl who doesn't get the attaction. Period.

[themostepotente.livejournal.com]

Right on right on right on RIGHT ON! Preach it, sistah.

A not-so-little-girl who doesn't get the attaction. Period.

It's an acquired taste, methinks.

[chelidona.livejournal.com]

I found this via dracorocksmysox And I wholeheartedly subscribe to this. I love H/D, I really do, but short drabbles and PWP are nearly the only thing I read anymore. I get deja vus in most fics. I found myself reading more and more rare pairings and gen lately.
This was the precise reason I dropped out of the Gundam Wing fandom as well. There was just nothing new. There were maybe 4 plots to pick from and the same thing seems to be happening in H/D.

[themostepotente.livejournal.com]

Deja vu -- and not in the good way.

I feel your pain. Truly I do :-)

And keep searching out those rare pairings. You'd be surprised at what you may find you like.

[beren-writes.livejournal.com]

Came here via dracorocksmysox's LJ.

I have to agree that many fics do take the path you dictated, and a lot of the time they are not well done. However, I would like to say that I have seen the worst cliches brought to life by good writers. I will also agree with ladyflowdi, it's not just H/D.

There are trends in writing, just like there are trends in fashion and I think that people come into a fandom and see what there is lots of and copy it. This adds to the problem in two ways: now there is yet more of the same; and writers who are just cutting their teeth are often not great (there are exceptions to the rule, but not many) so you get more of the same that is also badly written.

One of the problems with H/D is is is just so big. I rely on people like dracorocksmysox and frulie to point me at the good stuff. There are a few other rec journals I trust as well, but I find my taste to often be eccentric so there are some I just don't gel with ::g::.

I am an H/D shipper; it brought me into the fandom and keeps me here, but there is a hell of a signal to noise ratio.

[themostepotente.livejournal.com]

dracorocksmysox does an excellent job as a H/D spokesperson.

I have her friended and check her recs for stories myself.

I am an H/D shipper; it brought me into the fandom and keeps me here, but there is a hell of a signal to noise ratio.

Totally agreed :-)

[malfoy-potter.livejournal.com]

You have a point there. The ideas in H/D stories just aren't original anymore. Once you find a story that you think is original, look! There's about fifty others just like it. It does get annoying sometimes. I love H/D, but the stories need to get more original.

[themostepotente.livejournal.com]

I love H/D, but the stories need to get more original.

I agree. Which is not to say that all H/D writers are unoriginal.

Just don't get me started on fanfiction.net :P

[dorrie6.livejournal.com]

I can't speak for others, but regarding H/D established relationship stories... well, they honestly hold very little interest for me. That's not to say that I've never enjoyed one, because I certainly have, but for me, the story of H/D is how they get together. I have a hard time buying a story that is set in an established relationship, because it feels like cheating in a way... skipping the hard part. The hard part is getting these two together in the first place. If you can manage that, and manage to make it believable (which I think is a lot harder than you'd guess from the huge numbers of people who try it each day) then I think you've really written H/D. The truth is, I don't mind people exploring the same themes over and over, if they are doing it well. Let's face it- there is probably no story on earth that hasn't been told before, at this point, and this repetition in theme is, I think, inevitable in any fanfic writing that is ship-based. What I'm interested in is the execution of it. A good H/D writer is discovering something new in the pairing each time around, and I'm willing to go on that journey with them if they have the power to draw me in, to make me believe.

It's pretty difficult for someone to make an established relationship believable for me. I firmly believe that a very good writer can make me believe anything, but there has to be a hell of a backstory and it has to be very carefully incorporated into the fic for it to work for me. If the author isn't planning on writing about how they got together, they still need to know, and it needs to be evident to me as a reader, or I'm just not going to buy it. This type of story hasn't worked for me very often. Most of them feel very OOC to me.

This may be an unpopular opinion here in this thread, and obviously it is only my personal taste, but it's a pretty big deal to me. I'd say nine times out of ten I end up clicking away from an H/D established relationship story within the first couple of paragraphs, because I can already tell that it's not going to be believable to me.

What she said

[emmagrant01.livejournal.com]

I was going to comment on this post, but I think I'll just chime in and agree with people who've already said it better than I could.

I absolutely agree with dorrie6 that the interesting thing about H/D as a pairing is the central conflict of "how will Harry and Draco go from hating each other to hopping in the sack in the course of this fic"? To me, there are no other fics than so-called "first time" stories. I hardly ever read anything else. If a writer can make that work for me, I eat it up! As a writer, I try very hard to do a good job with that myself. Hence, I've written like two H/D fics, ever. Because it's hard to do, and I want so badly to contribute something new and substantive to the fandom. (Not claiming I do -- that's just the goal.)

But I think this is part of the "fandom cycle", too. Whenever I start reading a new pairing, it's all so fresh and new and exciting! I haven't yet read all the classics, and I don't know what the cliches are. I haven't yet identified what's fanon and what's OOC to a point that makes me uncomfortable. After about a year, it's hard not to get a little jaded. I then get really picky about my reading and focus even harder on my own writing.

This happened to me in Star Wars with Qui/Obi too. I can tick off a list of stuff I hate about that pairing, and I read so little of what gets posted now, for all the reasons mentioned in the original post above. It's just so cliched! And there again, I just don't like established-relationship fic.

*feels guilty about dissing the Mother Fandom*

[christiangirls.livejournal.com]

I think maybe that isn't entirely fair? Just a little. There are literally thousands of people just joining this fandom now and really, would they know any of it was a cliche? But! I can understand it if you've been here at least as long as I have (counting on 4 years now), I admit some of it can be tedious. On the other hand -- I am a completely sucker for nearly any well-written dorm-room H/D shag (or EVENTUAL shag!) fic. I think they can be brilliant and they actually kind of warm my heart a little to dig into. They make me feel at home and I just love to see the progression of that love/lust/angst/snark.

On the other hand, established relationships nearly send me running nine out of ten times. Basically, I have to have a great trust in the author to even think about reading the first paragraph. I like my boys in their dorms shagging beside a rain-damp window whilst clawing at each other (ok maybe not), thank you. :))

Ah, there really is nothing like a die-hard H/D shipper, is there. =;:>

[themostepotente.livejournal.com]

Might I just say that I'm happy to be a part of seekertoseeker.

I will be posting very soon here :-)

I like my boys in their dorms shagging beside a rain-damp window whilst clawing at each other (ok maybe not), thank you. :))

Guh - I love rain in fics.

[goingxmissing.livejournal.com]

I'm not going to say I hate this pairing, but some of the ways people write it ... just eurgh. I did it myself a year ago when I first got into fandom *shudders*

This is the main reason it's no longer my OTP, because I see the same plotlines over and over and over. And the amount of H/D badfic, just everywhere is so fucking unbelievable it makes me want to weep.

But I don't, I just stay well clear of the pairing now unless someone I trust is reccing it to me. Seems the safest way, IMHO.

[themostepotente.livejournal.com]

I'm not going to say I hate this pairing, but some of the ways people write it ... just eurgh. I did it myself a year ago when I first got into fandom *shudders*

Didn't we all? *chuckles* But we learn from our mistakes.

It's the people that are STILL doing it!

[zedmeister.livejournal.com]

I agree with you partially, but I don't have time now to write a longer reply, sorry :)

You might want to read these comments (http://www.livejournal.com/users/reenka/188739.html?thread=1562691#t1562691) made on one of reenka's posts, though. I found them very eye-opening at the time. I mean, here are all these fans, saying that many fics I personally like a *lot*, many creative post-Hogwarts stories, feature a Draco who is too OOC for them to read.

And while my appreciation of those fics hasn't really decreased since, it's interesting to see why some people *don't* like established H/D with plot.

[zedmeister.livejournal.com]

And also this comment, from the same post. (http://www.livejournal.com/users/reenka/188739.html?thread=1572419#t1572419)

[cedarlibrarian.livejournal.com]

I know I'm not that good a H/D writer, so this is very much the pot calling the kettle black, but I'm with you on a lot of this. I do way too much Astronomy Tower dinging and see that plot All The Freakin' Time. And word on the same not-very-good recs over and over; let's just leave it at that.

As for why writers follow this plot line, my guess is that they see it working for everyone else, and everyone else is ohsopopular because they write H/D, so they write what everyone else is writing because they want to make a name for themselves.

[themostepotente.livejournal.com]

As for why writers follow this plot line, my guess is that they see it working for everyone else, and everyone else is ohsopopular because they write H/D, so they write what everyone else is writing because they want to make a name for themselves.

That is a very good point you make, Cedar. Makes a lot of sense to me. All in the name of making a name for oneself -- pity, really.

[thermidor.livejournal.com]

Hi, I followed the link from Dorrie's LJ and I really liked what you had to say; I agree with many of the comments too. I'm very new to being a fan of this pairing and I have found some excellent stuff but also a lot of disappointment. There does seem to be a lot of that formula you mentioned and also a heaping dose of WeActLikeTeenageGirlsinOurSchmoopyLuv! and neither is satisfying to me They're like ho-hos or twinkies- fun for a guilty snack but not as a healthy diet.

I really think that established relationships can be done if the characters are developed skillfully; I know it can be done.

And I also wish there were more AUS- this pairing could do really well in them I think.

Just my 2 cents.

[thermidor.livejournal.com]

Also, I added you to my flist, hope that is OK with you :)