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themostepotenteI've noticed come fic exchanges or challenges that a lot of people list 'awkward' or 'imperfect' sex as a kink. Since the notion of imperfect sex is less than ideal, I started to wonder why so many of us found this not only appealing, but in some cases, preferred.
For me, it's always been about the realism of the situation. A first time experience is not always going to perfect or even enjoyable. And along with the clumsy boy sex, you have emotion (or lack thereof) partnered with this.
I think that some writers tend to get too caught up in the escapism of the storybook romance. Sure, there are people here for the fantasy aspect, and that should be left to the reader's discretion. I'm not here to dispute that. We like what we like, and I see absolutely no need to apologize for that. But really, when it all boils down to it, I know I would rather read about premature ejaculation, loss of self control, cocks slipping out, painful sex, and sloppy cock sucks.
Since I've been in fandom, I've discovered that stories where one's expectation of a sexual situation or partner falls short of the mark really tend to strike chords with me. There is one such story by![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-userinfo.gif)
icarusancalion where Lucius Malfoy isn't quite the casanova he's made himself out to be. It might not click with a lot of Lucius fans, but it's a touch of brilliance that really accentuates his humanness. (No -- that was not a dig at Lucius either. If anything, it makes me appreciate the character that much more.)
I think for me, half the fun is getting there. It could be Snape tutoring Lupin in the art of tantric sex. It could be Harry taking Draco's virginity. It could be Neville -- shy, sweet Neville -- who knows little at first and slowly becomes a sexual dynamo. The possibilities are limitless. But there is anxiety and over-enthusiasm and really horrific sex, and all I'm saying really is 'it's just a part of life.'
What are everyone else's feelings on awkward and imperfect sex?
Recs about the aforementioned topic are gold, people.
--P
For me, it's always been about the realism of the situation. A first time experience is not always going to perfect or even enjoyable. And along with the clumsy boy sex, you have emotion (or lack thereof) partnered with this.
I think that some writers tend to get too caught up in the escapism of the storybook romance. Sure, there are people here for the fantasy aspect, and that should be left to the reader's discretion. I'm not here to dispute that. We like what we like, and I see absolutely no need to apologize for that. But really, when it all boils down to it, I know I would rather read about premature ejaculation, loss of self control, cocks slipping out, painful sex, and sloppy cock sucks.
Since I've been in fandom, I've discovered that stories where one's expectation of a sexual situation or partner falls short of the mark really tend to strike chords with me. There is one such story by
icarusancalion where Lucius Malfoy isn't quite the casanova he's made himself out to be. It might not click with a lot of Lucius fans, but it's a touch of brilliance that really accentuates his humanness. (No -- that was not a dig at Lucius either. If anything, it makes me appreciate the character that much more.)I think for me, half the fun is getting there. It could be Snape tutoring Lupin in the art of tantric sex. It could be Harry taking Draco's virginity. It could be Neville -- shy, sweet Neville -- who knows little at first and slowly becomes a sexual dynamo. The possibilities are limitless. But there is anxiety and over-enthusiasm and really horrific sex, and all I'm saying really is 'it's just a part of life.'
What are everyone else's feelings on awkward and imperfect sex?
Recs about the aforementioned topic are gold, people.
--P
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no subject
Date: 2005-05-18 08:50 pm (UTC)I've found myself writing sex scenes that almost deliberately go against the fanfic norm, with things like fingering just for the sake of fingering, and one person getting off while the other decides to wait, and realistic touches like someone's jaw aching during a blow job, or him finding the taste of semen bitter and unpleasant.
It seems to me that if characters can find some intimacy despite stuff like that, it may be more heartwarming/intimate to a reader than whatever may come in the aftermath of a 'perfect' encounter.
no subject
Date: 2005-05-19 04:28 pm (UTC)A jaw should ache after a certain amount of time. I've even known one person whose jaw used to lock up if she went more than twenty minutes.
no subject
Date: 2005-05-18 09:02 pm (UTC)I LOVE realism in sex scenes. If a fic features over-the-top perfect fantasy sex, I'm usually thrown out of the story, just as I am when the dialogue is stilted or if the characterizations are bad. Realism in a sex scene is just as important to me as realism in every other scene in a fic.
I know that some people are reading fanfic for an escape, and that's fine, but it just doesn't do it for me. I'm interested in characters and their relationships. Every sex scene in a fic should serve a purpose, IMO; it should show the reader something new about the characters, advance the story -- just like every other scene should. Unrealistic sex doesn't do that because it's pointless. If there isn't any conflict, nothing happens. No one grows. And to top it all off, it's boring! I'll skim to get to the part where the characters actually do something interesting, thanks very much.
I've been moved to tears by well-written sex scenes, and I've been motivated to go find my vibrator too. But part of "well-written" means that I believe those characters could be doing and feeling this, at that particular moment in their lives. People don't have perfect sex the first time, or at the age of 15, or at the end of a long, hard day. It just doesn't work that way! Moreover, that isn't the basis of a good story.
Sex is intimate and imperfect and fun and strange and awkward and messy and beautiful. I simply don't understand why some people want to leave so many of those aspects of it out.
no subject
Date: 2005-05-19 04:32 pm (UTC)Honestly, it's because a lot of people prefer to read a PWP with teh hawt secks. It tends to hit the kink buttons in a fast food-like fashion. You know, quick and hot? Me, I'd rather read something plotty with UST.
no subject
Date: 2005-05-18 09:08 pm (UTC)Here's Neville for you...
I wouldn't call him a sex god, but Sasha likes him.
no subject
Date: 2005-05-19 04:33 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2005-05-18 09:21 pm (UTC)Then sometimes, I can tell that the author is trying too hard to make it imperfect, especially when it comes to emoting mid-coitus. They might stop for a three-paragraph exposition on feelings and how this imperfect sex means that OMG they might not be soulmates and... gah. Then it's girls-with-cocks fucking, not men. Of course, YMMV.
(I really should not be attempting these things before coffee. :P)
no subject
Date: 2005-05-19 04:37 pm (UTC)I really fucking hate that. And I've noticed it's only with certain pairings. I guess that's why I really enjoy your Snupin. I know far too many Snupin writers that just romanticize the fuck outta that pairing. I hate when chicks write unrealistic man sex, and it's all schmoopy 'n shit. Did I mention I hate that?
no subject
Date: 2005-05-18 10:25 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2005-05-18 11:15 pm (UTC)(no subject)
From:no subject
Date: 2005-05-18 11:15 pm (UTC)Realistic sex often has details that would otherwise be neglected in setting the scene - if the author writes about it being messy, or the jeans around the knees, or the fumbling about during a first time, those details set a scene so much more clearly in my head. Not only can I relate to it, I can see it and feel it so much better, and therefore it's hotter to me personally. If it's not 'real', it just feels numb.
This goes for unrealistic or purple terminology also - I don't want to reading about a guy or a girl 'laving at his hot, hard member'. Lave? Member? Tonguing cock sounds so much more juicy and real.
no subject
Date: 2005-05-19 04:38 pm (UTC)Lave I don't mind. But 'member' is gag-worthy.
no subject
Date: 2005-05-18 11:17 pm (UTC)My favorite favorite favorite first time awkward sex story is
And I love the way
no subject
Date: 2005-05-19 04:41 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2005-05-18 11:33 pm (UTC)Sometimes, I like PWP. Then the sex certainly can be exceptional, because that's the point.
Sometimes I'm willing to believe that two people have excellent sex -- that they even *routinely* have excellent sex.
However, in most non-PWP fiction, I prefer the sex or allusions to sex to be non-gratuitous, by which I mean that it should somehow fit the story. And I *don't* like unrealistic fiction or cliche'ed characterizations, which means that the sex scenes should support some sort of character trait or development. That tends to imply something other than choreographed delight.
no subject
Date: 2005-05-19 04:43 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2005-05-18 11:56 pm (UTC)I'm writing fewer and fewer stories with sex scenes in them, but I suppose I do make reference to the degree in which the reality has matched up to the ideal when characters think about sex, in the same way I do with anything else. Richard analyses everything, so he's as likely to wonder if he should have done something with those silk scarves over Imogen's bedposts the first time they had sex as he is to wonder how she can cycle while wearing an ankle-length skirt and DMs. Now the tricky bit is getting him to ask her...
Gina
no subject
Date: 2005-05-20 02:58 pm (UTC)I'd get the hem of the skirt caught in the spoke :P
Hmmm
Date: 2005-05-19 01:33 am (UTC)There's the lead up to sex < a href="http://www.livejournal.com/users/franticbabbles/3616.html#cutid1">Not On This Day
and the actual sex scene This One (http://www.livejournal.com/users/franticbabbles/3910.html#cutid1)
It has discomfort, pain and everything.
Re: Hmmm
Date: 2005-05-20 03:01 pm (UTC)Thanks for the recs! Second one for
no subject
Date: 2005-05-19 02:05 am (UTC)Awkward is one thing... but all things in moderation.
Including moderation :)
no subject
Date: 2005-05-20 03:04 pm (UTC)(no subject)
From:no subject
Date: 2005-05-19 02:56 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2005-05-20 03:07 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2005-05-19 03:06 am (UTC)Or small cocks, or accidental teeth. There's just so much fun to be had with earnest, honest, less than perfect sex!
no subject
Date: 2005-05-19 04:47 pm (UTC)(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:no subject
Date: 2005-05-19 04:12 am (UTC)That's not to say I don't like reading about hot sex. Awkard sex can be very hot, if not *more* because the awkwardness of the sex doesn't matter, the couple are trying their damnedest to have the time of their lives, and even if the sex sucked, it doesn't matter because they did it together and they know they'll get better...
>.> Yeah, so I'm a hopeless romantic. Hee.
no subject
Date: 2005-05-20 03:11 pm (UTC)Most men can't even have multiple orgasms.
no subject
Date: 2005-05-19 04:27 am (UTC)I've been wondering about that too... because the "imperfect" just matches our real-life experiences so much more. I recently reached a point where I got so fed-up with all that perfect sex, featuring endless orgasms that also coincided with feelings of true love and a lot of climactic name-shouting, and all this in such flowery language.
Okay, fantasy, fair enough. But in RL, it takes quite a lot of luck, efforts , good will or drugs, make your pick, for all the components to be mixed the right way.
As fanfiction, in my opinion, partly is about tenderly dragging our fictional heros down to our mundane lives (i.e. all that sex-quantity in the first place) it seems only natural that writers try to make the characters experience something in the way that's not ideal, but probably more close to life.
Now, back to your question: my feeling about awkward sex is that it definitely happens and I'm glad someone brought it up, and like you, I'm looking forward to reading it in fanfic. Might even turn out I won't enjoy it after all, but it's definitely a bit of necessary variety!
no subject
Date: 2005-05-19 05:22 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2005-05-20 03:15 pm (UTC)Think about it. When was the last time you read a fic where someone's cock slipped out due to size? Or when someone cried out in pain because they weren't properly lubricated? Hell, condoms are realistic enough, but wizards don't have to worry about venereal disease?
no subject
Date: 2005-05-19 05:58 am (UTC)I write Remus/Sirius as well, and I get very sick of seeing all perfect times and simultaneous orgasms. But as someone said, it depends on what you're reading and what you're looking for.
If you're writing a couple having their first time, I expect some awkwardness- moreso if they're teenaged virgins. Not necessarily utter cluelessness (like "how the heck do we do this?"), but fumbling and pain and whatever. If you're writing an established couple, I'm perfectly willing to accept excellent sex, because they know each other's rhythms.
I write plot more than PWP- in seven chapters of Accidentally In Love I've written maybe 3.5 sex scenes, and only one of them was truly explicit. If you're writing much plot, I think the sex must be extremely realistic for the situation- and there must be a reason for the sex to be shown- or it jerks the reader out of the story. If you're writing a one shot, there's somewhat less expectations, and if you're writing PWP... well... heh.
What I rarely see is awkward or bad or off sex in an established couple. I can understand that, to a point. PWP you don't really write that sort of sex, and in plotted stories by the time a couple is established you're well past writing every time they have sex. But bad sex happens even to couples that know each other very, very well and have an excellent relationship, and I'd love to see a story where that comes up. (Or not, because I'll probably write it now ;) )
no subject
Date: 2005-05-20 03:17 pm (UTC)I agree completely. People get tired. Aren't always in the mood. Get too excited. Wizards are still human.
no subject
Date: 2005-05-19 07:01 am (UTC)Realism overall in fic is awesome. I love realistic dysfunctionality in relationships and friendships and all of that. They're characters but why make them out to be just that? There's a lot to explore when treating characters like people with genuine faults and flaws.
no subject
Date: 2005-05-20 03:19 pm (UTC)I write Snape with terrible allergies. I LIKE that he's flawed. I can identify with a character more.
Here thanks to cordelia_v
Date: 2005-05-19 10:38 am (UTC)"Imperfect" sex doesn't necessarily mean "bad" sex. As a writer, including personal insecurities, lost or unenthusiastic erections, wonky rhythm, teeth, embarrasing things said in the heat of passion, silly farty/slappy noises, foot cramps, bashing into the headboard, and awkward positions, and all sorts of other things that can go wrong can actually serve a purpose. How do your characters deal with those imperfect moments? Do they get too embarrassed, and retreat? Do they laugh about it--and can they share a laugh when things go askew? How do they communicate? How far do they trust each other? What is it like afterwards--do the characters feel closer to each other, or is there distance?
If I'm going to include a sex scene in a story, it has to play a role in furthering the plot. I'm not a PWP writer, much as I like reading them. Perfect sex does have its place, but I tend to use it sparingly.
Re: Here thanks to cordelia_v
Date: 2005-05-20 03:24 pm (UTC)I am ALL about the plot. I tend to shy away from reading PWP's these days. And forget about my writing them. It just doesn't hold my interest to write 1000 words of sex.
Re: Here thanks to cordelia_v
From:Re: Here thanks to cordelia_v
From:no subject
Date: 2005-05-19 01:07 pm (UTC)The more giggly, sweaty, unco-ordinated and moderately embarrassing but desperate the better. I just can't get into really slick, perfect, hotter-than-life shagging, especially if it's first-time boy!sex.
Be sure to post all the recs you get sent *yum*
no subject
Date: 2005-05-20 03:26 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2005-05-19 01:46 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2005-05-20 03:28 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2005-05-19 04:19 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2005-05-20 03:30 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2005-05-19 05:34 pm (UTC)1) Very good sex that contains details like farts or stray elbows or hair getting in people's mouths--things that happen in real-life good sex but are not usually described.
2) Sex that is actually awkward and is described that way.
Unrealistic sex turns me off because I get too distracted by the implausibility--I think about what would actually happen, and I wince.
no subject
Date: 2005-05-20 03:31 pm (UTC)It tends to turn me off too. I mean, c'mon, how many people actually pass out because the sex is that fucking explosive?