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themostepotenteI've been thinking a lot about the time turner and am wondering if there is a similar device that allows travel into the future? Of course there is the argument that since the future hasn't occured yet, how can one travel ahead? But this is fiction, so I suppose we're allowed some leeway?
I've always loved the idea of time travel. The past, the future, matters not. Just the idea of being able to travel backwards or forwards in time is fascinating to me. I'd be very interested to see a brief glimpse into the future, however, and how the characters develop. I have conjured this image in my mind of a post-apocalyptic setting after the War where things aren't so easily put right by magic.
I'm thinking there has to be some correlation between magic and quantum physics, although I'm fairly certain that Rowling didn't go and research Hawking. But at least she had the sense to consider paradoxes, and well, the same matter can never occupy the same space.
Basic theory is that space-time is a four-dimensional construct. A four-dimensional 'worm', whose ends represent the events of your birth and death, is what your life forms in space-time. An object, seen any instant, is a three-dimensional cross section of this worm. The line along which the object lies (ignoring its thickness) is that object's worldline. At any point, the angle your worldline makes with the time axis is a measure of your speed.
Relativity requires that worldlines be timelike. Massive objects distort space-time and bend worldlines. Suppose space-time becomes so distorted so that some worldlines form closed loops. These worldlines would be timelike all around. Locally, they would have all the properties of space and time, but yet they would be corridors of the past. This construct is called a closed timelike curve (CTC). By following a CTC, theoretically we could meet ourselves in the past, or if the loop were large enough, visit our ancestors. How this would allow time travel into the future is frankly, beyond my feeble comprehension :P
I think the time turner was a wonderful plot device though, and one has to wonder now that Harry knows of its existence, how often he considers getting his hands on one. It's really opened up the door for writers to explore an AU with characters that Rowling has killed off without the time period constrictions. So much to explore here, and the possibilities are limitless, really.
So that brings me here. What are everyone's thoughts on time travel and time turners?
Do you have any time travel fics to rec?
--P
I've always loved the idea of time travel. The past, the future, matters not. Just the idea of being able to travel backwards or forwards in time is fascinating to me. I'd be very interested to see a brief glimpse into the future, however, and how the characters develop. I have conjured this image in my mind of a post-apocalyptic setting after the War where things aren't so easily put right by magic.
I'm thinking there has to be some correlation between magic and quantum physics, although I'm fairly certain that Rowling didn't go and research Hawking. But at least she had the sense to consider paradoxes, and well, the same matter can never occupy the same space.
Basic theory is that space-time is a four-dimensional construct. A four-dimensional 'worm', whose ends represent the events of your birth and death, is what your life forms in space-time. An object, seen any instant, is a three-dimensional cross section of this worm. The line along which the object lies (ignoring its thickness) is that object's worldline. At any point, the angle your worldline makes with the time axis is a measure of your speed.
Relativity requires that worldlines be timelike. Massive objects distort space-time and bend worldlines. Suppose space-time becomes so distorted so that some worldlines form closed loops. These worldlines would be timelike all around. Locally, they would have all the properties of space and time, but yet they would be corridors of the past. This construct is called a closed timelike curve (CTC). By following a CTC, theoretically we could meet ourselves in the past, or if the loop were large enough, visit our ancestors. How this would allow time travel into the future is frankly, beyond my feeble comprehension :P
I think the time turner was a wonderful plot device though, and one has to wonder now that Harry knows of its existence, how often he considers getting his hands on one. It's really opened up the door for writers to explore an AU with characters that Rowling has killed off without the time period constrictions. So much to explore here, and the possibilities are limitless, really.
So that brings me here. What are everyone's thoughts on time travel and time turners?
Do you have any time travel fics to rec?
--P
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no subject
Date: 2005-03-23 01:19 am (UTC)Yes, I suppose it depends on which theory you subscribe to. I would have to make a disclamer myself, as I am into quantum mechanics and have never had serious interest in astrophysics. This is partly the reason that I have trouble getting through the Hawking books, though it is all connected. That and I suppose my personal opinion that the uniqueness theory rules and we are indeed alone in the universe(s).
could babble all day about it myself ;-)
no subject
Date: 2005-03-23 01:39 am (UTC)As for the Hawking books, at least A Brief History is getting to the point where it has more value as a document of scientific history, rather than as an accurate portrayal of how today's cosmological theories understand the structure of the universe. Well, re WMAP data and ever-expanding vs. expanding-contracting universe models, at least. I haven't read any of the new printings of the book, though.
Being a mathematician (well, applied math), I'm far more interested in Gödel's incompleteness theorem than in his yammerings about the structure of the universe. And I do subscribe to the many-worlds theory as being the most viable way of enabling time travel, but who knows -- maybe magic works in Gödelian ways. It seems to be fine disregarding the First Law of Thermodynamics, too. ;)
Second section
Date: 2005-03-23 01:09 pm (UTC)You know, while QM is one of my passions, I am by no means an expert and although I am a number cruncher (finance), I am no mathematician either. I understand the theory, but am not particularly adept at doing the higher calculations.
I have A Brief History and Black Holes and baby Universes and other Essays. I have promised myself to try and read at least one during the Easter holiday. Everyone raves about Hawking, I don't know why it is I have trouble reading his work.
In my head I seem to have the need to justify the magical world in terms of what I consider to be realistic. That sounds crazy, I guess, but I don't think it's much different than my need for fanfiction to be realistic as far as the characters are concerned. For example, If Severus starts calling Harry luv and Harry calls Severus Sev I'm outta there. So when people write fanfic where a time turner is used in a way that is completely inconsistant with the principles of QM -- someone goes into the past and kills Voldemort, or worse yet becomes Voldemort, in order to change the future, I roll my eyes and move on to the next fic.
Actually, I really think use of a time turner should be part of the warnings right up there with BDSM, Chan and non-con. Then I could decide right away if I wanted to take the chance of reading a good story, only to have it ruined two thirds of the way in when the author introduces a time turner. There are some writers out there that could do a really great job with this topic, but I'd rather not be surprised. Yes, I'm kind of kidding here, but...well, one can dream ;-)
maybe magic works in Goedelian ways. It seems to be fine disregarding the First Law of Thermodynamics, too
Gödel's IT is applicable to almost everything...though I think I draw the line at the implication that his theory shows that you will never entirely understand yourself, since the mind, as a closed system, can only be sure of what it knows about itself by relying on what it knows about itself. I am curious, though, why you think that Magic disregards the First Law of Thermodynamics. I see no reason why a magical world would violate that law.
Re: Second section
Date: 2005-03-23 04:30 pm (UTC)Stephen Hawking is a lot like Tolkien in the same respects. It took me MONTHS to read through the Silmarillion. Some people just find the 'voice' too, oh what's the word I'm looking for? Dry? Stilted? I'm at a loss, really.
A Brief History of Time is definitely worth your efforts, though.
Re: Second section
Date: 2005-03-23 09:52 pm (UTC)Yes! That's it, stilted. I read large quantities of theoretical physics material as well as technical medical journals so I was puzzled why Hawking was such a challenge for me - now I realise that yes, it's his 'voice' that I can't get comfortable with.
Due to the time difference, I am, once again, reading your mail during morning work hours. Since I have to get back to doing the thinking that brings home the bacon, I'll mail you later with some other thoughts; I had several of them with regard to the magical world and physics while I was 'talking' to
Re: Second section
Date: 2005-03-25 04:46 pm (UTC)