Lucius Malfoy deuxieme partie -- Enemies, Allies, Loved Ones

[themostepotente]

Is there more to Lucius Malfoy than meets the eye?

Can he be written any other way than a cold and unfeeling bastard?

I think so.

This discussion stemmed from an incident that happened when I made the mistake of posting at a community that 'insisted' Lucius Malfoy be written 'one' way and one way only -- canon.

This was also the case with Narcissa and Draco Malfoy. Presumably his relationship with Snape.

Why is mixing canon and fanon such an evil wrong doing?

Why on EARTH is giving Lucius long hair and a snake cane considered such a horrible thing?

I LIKE Lucius with long hair.

I LIKE the damn snake cane.

I don't give a flying fuck who disagrees.

To say that Lucius is one dimensional and therefore should be written one way is CLOSEMOTHERFUCKINGMINDED.

Oh sure, he's a bastard. And a damn sexy one, but he's still human fercrissakes.

He still bleeds. He still hurts. He's not invincible.

On his relationship with Severus

I think that Lucius and Severus were close once. It is also my belief that Severus once looked up to Lucius. But betrayal had a hand in the mistrust that lingers in its place. There is nothing left to salvage -- or is there? Why does no one write Lucius wrestling with this?

You can't tell me Lucius wasn't hurt by this. You don't get knifed in the back by someone you care about and not have it affect you. I suspect Lucius bottles a lot, but when he's alone, isn't he entitled to grieve the loss of a friendship?

Unfortunately, you get to a point in life where damage is irreparable. Where there is nothing more to say to one another. Where pleasantries are all one can muster. This is where I see Lucius and Severus now.

On his relationship with Narcissa

I'm rather torn on his relationship with Narcissa.

On one hand, I see her as a trophy wife. I see Lucius cheating. I see a very cold and impersonal life arranged long ago. There is no love to speak of.

On the other hand, I see this as being the only relationship that Lucius feels he can actually, oh I don't know, 'let go' at times. That Narcissa is the only person he can trust to an extent. Normally, I wouldn't have thought this possible, but after seeing sharp_tongue's portrayal of Lucius and katbeseroc's portrayal of Narcissa, I've had a change of heart. They've shown me a side of their relationship I haven't seen too often -- loving.

On his relationship with Draco

For the most part, I think he believes Draco is a fuck up. But being that he is his son, there is love. Lucius doesn't show it often or publicly I would imagine.

And I know Lucius is a hardass, but you can't tell me he wouldn't grieve at his only son's passing?

I'm really curious to see what others think. Is it possible to write Lucius with feeling and emotion?

Let's hear what you have to say!

--P

Comments

[reposoir.livejournal.com]

I like seeing Lucius written as grey myself. Yay for emotions and all, but some authors can go too far and turn him into a puss that's completely out of character.

But then I also don't want to read a Lucius who is so dark and dismal and cruel that he's more unhuman than...something really unhuman.

Severus? Well, I think that he and Lucius screwed around once (with Lucius being the dominant figure in the relationship) but that it's sorta panned out by the time Harry/Draco/etc are in school.

Narcissa? I rather like to think they married out of love for one another in addition to sharing similar values/goals/etc. But I don't think Narcissa will ever be able to shake the stigma of a trophy wife. At least, not until we see more of her in canon.

Draco? I think Lucius loves him and all BUT does think his son is a puss. Maybe Lucius subliminally encouraged it? I mean, if he's always spoiling his son rotten and having house elves do everything for Draco, I'm not surprised Draco is the way he is.

[themostepotente.livejournal.com]

Oh, I completely agree. I know a few people that tend to write Lucius 'fluffy.' As if. I simply avoid their work like the plague. Yes, there is a line drawn in the sand that should NOT be crossed.

[bethbethbeth.livejournal.com]

I think it's possible to write *anyone* with feelings and emotions. God knows I don't feel the least bit guilty about writing Snape weeping over the cuteness of a puppy and...

...oh. Never mind.

No, seriously...of course he can/should have feelings. With the possible exception of post-revival Voldemort (and note that I'm not saying Tom Riddle), I don't think there's a single character in the books who can't suffer or love or whatever. The problem comes when you try to get someone who dislikes the character or sees them as utterly one-dimensional (i.e., many readers) to care about the carefully layered humanity you've given that character. I mean, if they see Lucius as little more than an arrogant, cruel, self-serving Nazi, then it's quite likely that they're not going to care about his humanity, even if they acknowledge it on an intellectual level.

Of course, this isn't to say that you have to give a rat's arse about what (some) other people think. God knows I have plenty of friends for whom the idea of Snape falling in love with anyone is completely odious, and it hasn't stopped me. *g*

[themostepotente.livejournal.com]

I think it's possible to write *anyone* with feelings and emotions. God knows I don't feel the least bit guilty about writing Snape weeping over the cuteness of a puppy and...

...oh. Never mind.

Or a teddy bear!

Of course, this isn't to say that you have to give a rat's arse about what (some) other people think. God knows I have plenty of friends for whom the idea of Snape falling in love with anyone is completely odious, and it hasn't stopped me. *g*

The nerve, eh?

Enjoyed reading what you had to say, Beth. Thanks for stopping by!

[twigged.livejournal.com]

I think for a lot of men in positions as powerful as Lucius, cheating is just part of the lifestyle. But he wouldn't have an special loyalty to those he cheated with, either. Image is everything to a guy like that, and that includes the trophy wife and the strong family front they put on for the world. I can see him letting go with Narcissa, definitely. That's what her purpose is in the marriage - to provide comfort to him.

[themostepotente.livejournal.com]

I think for a lot of men in positions as powerful as Lucius, cheating is just part of the lifestyle. But he wouldn't have an special loyalty to those he cheated with, either. Image is everything to a guy like that, and that includes the trophy wife and the strong family front they put on for the world. I can see him letting go with Narcissa, definitely. That's what her purpose is in the marriage - to provide comfort to him.

Lucius' strongest loyalty is to himself, I think. And I do agree with everything you've said.

Nice work on the H/D story by the way.

[twigged.livejournal.com]

Oh, thanks! I'm glad you're enjoying it.

[scarah2.livejournal.com]

Lucius still pals around with Snape from time to time, according to Sirius ("lapdog" hahaha) and Umbridge ("Malfoy always speaks highly of you" or whatever).

I think Lucius cheats on Narcissa and gives Draco a hard time about his performance, but he's probably their fiercest defender as well. I can see them being the type of family that go around snarking at each other, but if anyone else tried it they'd be staring down the wrong end of a pimp cane (OMG DREADED MOVIE CANON). :D

[themostepotente.livejournal.com]

Dear God woman I hope you aren't suggesting that Lucius and Umbridge are strapping one on? *chuckles*

[scarah2.livejournal.com]

BWA HA HA!

Yes and he suggested sharing her with Snape

Everyone knows Centaurs/Umbridge is the One True Gangbang.

[anjenue.livejournal.com]

I like writing Lucius in many different ways, personally, and think he's one of the most intriguing characters because he CAN go so many ways. Sometimes, I write him as a cold and unfeeling bastard with no regard for anyone around him except himself, who enjoys torture and manipulation and power and death more than anything else. Sometimes, I write him as a loving father and doting husband, whose role in Voldemort's legions is to ensure a constant place in society for his family and nothing more. And I've written everything in between. I think it's possible with Lucius, unlike with many other characters, to write him from several different angles and still justify most of them, BECAUSE we know so little of him. There are hints, of course. We see in CoS that he's arrogant and self-centred, but that could be a public show he puts on. We KNOW he hates Muggle-borns, and that he enjoys wreaking havoc, but that just means he's got strong political views and quite possibly doesn't even think of Muggles and Muggleborns as human beings (and therefore torturing them isn't an issue, much like plantation owners did with slaves). He's also very determined to carry out his orders to the best of his ability, and it's clear that he hates messes - I reference the way he reacts during the Department of Mysteries battle, trying to get people to be as careful as possible and such.

Basically, I think Lucius is a wonderful character to play with, and while there are definitely WRONG ways to write him (fluffy, Muggle-loving Lucius? I don't think so!), there is more than one way to...erm...create a Malfoy.

[themostepotente.livejournal.com]

That was exactly what I wanted to hear -- that some people run the gamut of emotions with Lucius.

Thanks for coming by and expressing your opinions.

[lidane.livejournal.com]

I don't have time to respond to all of this, though I'd love to spend ages talking about it, but I'll hit on the one aspect of Lucius that I've been consumed with lately--his relationship with Narcissa.

Although I've written her as an inconvenience and as a trophy wife in the past, I don't really believe this, simply because I look at the family she's from. Andromeda had enough strength of will to defy her family and marry Tonks' dad for love, and Bellatrix is a very strong personality in her own right. I can't imagine Narcissa as anything less.

She convinced Lucius-- despite his better judgement and his loathing of Dumbledore-- to send Draco to Hogwarts rather than to Durmstrang, where he would rather send his son, as there are no Muggleborns allowed, and which most likely teaches Dark Arts as standard curriculum. And she is probably the one sending Draco sweets and cakes daily while he's away at school.

Any woman who could stand toe to toe with a man like Lucius Malfoy and convince him to keep his son in the UK despite his feelings about Hogwarts and its Headmaster is most likely *not* a weak-willed pushover.

I think that they honestly do love each other, at least in their own way, and that he respects her, because I don't see him indulging her on a matter as serious as his son's magical education just to get her out of his hair, you know?

[Bad username or site: @ livejournal.com] wrote a fantastic bit of angsty L/N smut about the relationship they have, and how they got to where they are. And there's no neat resolution in the end, either. I like it a lot:

Silence (http://www.livejournal.com/community/lucissa/1292.html#cutid1)

Check it out! :)

[themostepotente.livejournal.com]

Any woman who could stand toe to toe with a man like Lucius Malfoy and convince him to keep his son in the UK despite his feelings about Hogwarts and its Headmaster is most likely *not* a weak-willed pushover.

I would tend to agree. I do think Narcissa knows her place though.

I go to the LuCissa comm on occasion as I do enjoy the pairing. I'll have to check out that link you provided. Thank you!

My Malfoy, YMMV

[rikibeth.livejournal.com]

Lucius is the primary villain in my fics, and he's a selfish bastard there, no doubt about it. I have him pegged there as essentially a sociopath, and also a sadist, emotionally and physically both.

And yet he is capable of showing tenderness, at times. He doesn't exactly CARE about people, in the sense of wanting them to be happy, and willing to endure hardship to make them happy... but he can be fond of people, when they please him, and generous, when he feels like it, and people often think he cares more than he does.

He's ambitious for Draco. He wants the best for him -- his ideas of the best. I'm not sure he's capable of imagining that Draco COULD be unhappy conforming to his Master Plan. It's not love, but it's concern, and pride.

He and Narcissa are well suited. I don't think he loves her in a heart-and-flowers romantic aspect, but he considers her a partner, and has a fair amount of respect for her. He's willing to defer to her wishes about where to send Draco, and that says a lot, because he is NOT accustomed to putting anyone else's wishes ahead of his own. And I think Narcissa is pretty happy with him. I don't think she wanted romantic love as much as she wanted a Good Match, and by her standards, he was all that and a bag of chips. Cheating goes with the territory... he can have his playtoys on the side, particularly for activities she'd rather not indulge in, as long as he doesn't embarrass her publicly, and I think he does know how to be discreet.

I am more than open to other interpretations of him. I love the one in chaos_rose's "Carusiugum." This is just the Malfoy that suits my fics!

Re: My Malfoy, YMMV

[themostepotente.livejournal.com]

I like what you had to say about Lucius and his brand of love. I think we both agree that Lucius Malfoy does not love in the conventional sense.

Oh yes, chaos_rose does write some HOT Lucius/Severus smut. I'm enjoying that series muchly :-)

[dphearson.livejournal.com]

So here is how I see Lucius Malfoy:

With Severus: a younger social friend that at one time, he helped when lonely and unsure. Sure, it was the Deatheaters, but still, a social friend. Realising that someone he cared for has abandoned him and his group will hurt deeply.

With Narcissa: I see Lucius and Narcissa as happily married,loving, and understanding each other. But remember, the Macbeths were loving and devoted, too.

With Draco: He does not see Draco as a fuck up. He sees him as his mirror, and loves Draco dearly.

My two bits!

[themostepotente.livejournal.com]

With Narcissa: I see Lucius and Narcissa as happily married,loving, and understanding each other. But remember, the Macbeths were loving and devoted, too.

You plead a very good case here, Dana :-)

[fluffyllama.livejournal.com]

Characterisation is what makes me squeal most in the fics I love, but even so I can't think of anything duller than showing no other sides to a character to those already seen in the books. I *want* to see the characters when they aren't around Harry, or aren't in public. I *want* to see what they are like at home, with their family, or whatever, and since we don't know it is always going to be fanon. I can accept a wide range of characterisation, and as I love future fics perhaps more than some. It's the exploration I like to see, whether it incorporates stuff from the films or other plausible scenarios - just (as you say) don't give me completely implausible and unrecognisable characters.

[themostepotente.livejournal.com]

I *want* to see the characters when they aren't around Harry, or aren't in public. I *want* to see what they are like at home, with their family, or whatever, and since we don't know it is always going to be fanon.

I couldn't agree more, Fluffy. I'm working on a Lucius fic dealing with his stay at Azkaban. I expect it to be emotional. It just wouldn't feel real otherwise.

[tradesland.livejournal.com]

I think people needs more than one or two facial expressions to survive in the kind of world that Lucius lives.

In some ways is an insult to think of Lucius as a uni-dimentional? charater because you just can´t live the way he has, as a simply EBIL VILLIAN, you need skill and inteligence and, and a goddamn brain! to do the things he has done, to be who he is, to believe and support and fight for what he does. In a very lucius kind of a way of course :).

[themostepotente.livejournal.com]

But of course!

[adolfa.livejournal.com]

Why on EARTH is giving Lucius long hair and a snake cane considered such a horrible thing?

Because it's ugly? I mean, there's nothing wrong with writing it that way if you like it, but there's also people who are the opposite way and will freak if he's written with short hair. Personally, I don't write it that way because I honestly think it's double-take ugly, and I don't think Lucius is an ugly person, but as long as you can separate canon from movie canon, jeez, I don't see who's complaining.

I guess I'm alone in seeing Lucius as just a terribly average sort of person. Like really, just a rich, not terribly smart, maybe sort of jerky and immature but overall average guy. I do think he bottles things but then I'm hard-pressed to name one person, especially male, who doesn't. I think he views Narcissa as a wife, and Draco as a son, and Snape as weird and vaguely greasy (and young, I don't think they were ever really friends). The problem I always have with others' characterizations is that people just tend to think that his emotions even need this much contemplation, when really, I don't think there's anything particularly special about the way he operates. In the books, we only see him angry and bored (and subservient, once), but there's no rule that says he can't be happy or disappointed or excited or whatever at other points, like all of us. I have zero respect for anyone who makes him into a sadist and a sociopath, especially if they then say that he's not just a one-dimensional villain. Whatever. I definitely think he can and should be written with emotion and dimension, but I think it destroys the purpose of writing him that way when the author makes a big deal out of it, as to imply it's a rare thing or whatever. A rare thing for someone to have feelings? Big sparkly stfu.

[themostepotente.livejournal.com]

Because it's ugly? I mean, there's nothing wrong with writing it that way if you like it, but there's also people who are the opposite way and will freak if he's written with short hair. Personally, I don't write it that way because I honestly think it's double-take ugly, and I don't think Lucius is an ugly person, but as long as you can separate canon from movie canon, jeez, I don't see who's complaining.

You'd be surprised. I had a fic ripped apart simply because it wasn't 'strict' canon. Though, it was certainly not an OOC portrayal. People are just funny that way, I suppose.

[pieslut.livejournal.com]

Hell yes!
I've read the books over more times than strictly healthy, and nowhere did I get the impression that he's all that spectacular or unusual. He has more money than most, and he's made some stupid decisions, but that's pretty much it. He's just a guy, who spoils his kid rotten but also wants him to be tough. He aquiesces to his wife's wishes, from what I've seen. My take is he's probably cowed pretty easily by a select few - Voldemort and Narcissa.
I'd love to see that in a story. Lucius sitting there, trying to get Narcissa to stop yelling at him. Hee.
And dude, I do not think anyone in the Black family would tolerate their spouse screwing around on them. Ever.

[adolfa.livejournal.com]

Oh, yeah. Narcissa is a hardass. I used to love playing around with different versions of L/N, in fact, but now that I've discovered the glorious "frat boy falls for totally unlikely intelligent ice queen", I'm pretty much set for life. It's so good, you can't help yourself.

Sadly, the fandom at large disagrees. :-

[rikibeth.livejournal.com]

See, with my Lucius, Narcissa tolerates the screwing around, because she knows it's no threat to her. She remains lady wife, unchallenged, and has the sort of sex she likes with him; he has play-toys on the side, mostly male, and exercises the kinks she doesn't care for with them. He's discreet and doesn't cause her public humiliation over it, and she's well satisfied.

It's not as if she's worried about losing his affection, after all.

[themostepotente.livejournal.com]

Couldn't have said this better myself, dear :-)

[themostepotente.livejournal.com]

It doesn't seem to me, though, that Narcissa has much choice.

That is, unless the infidelity is not one-sided. And I can't see Lucius turning a blind eye to Narcissa screwing around.

[mizbean.livejournal.com]

I sometimes have trouble see Lucius not being cold and ruthless, because I see him as one of those aristocratic types who believe they are owed respect simply by their birthright. I tend to stereotype aristocrats as being cold, distant and worried about keeping up appearances. I do think he is ruthless and ambitious -- he's willing to deny Voldemort after his first reign in order to keep his family name in good standing. Part of me thinks he is playing the loyal courtier, waiting in the wings for his opportunity to strike down Voldemort and assume power. The fact that he foolishly followed Voldie into the MOM at the OotP doesn't jibe with this characterization though. I still scratch my head at that boneheaded move.

I see Lucius and Narcissa having a distant marriage, a marriage of convenience. Maybe they were happy in the early days.

I do see Lucius being a little disappointed in Draco, the fact that he is so easily vexed by Harry, but I do think Draco is Lucius's one soft spot, maybe his blind spot. Draco seems to be very loyal to both of his parents -- defending them both fiercely to Harry -- that leads me to believe there is some love in the Malfoy home.

[themostepotente.livejournal.com]

Part of me thinks he is playing the loyal courtier, waiting in the wings for his opportunity to strike down Voldemort and assume power.

That -- is a very interesting theory. Lucius would make an interesting Dark Lord. Though, I can't see Voldemort giving that up without a fight.

[mizbean.livejournal.com]

No, I don't think Voldemort would give up easily, but I'm not sure how smart Voldemort is either. Maniacal villains tend to have a lot of blind spots.

Lucius seems too calculating to just be a blind follower. I don't know if he is necessarily smart but he knows how to play the political game. It'll be interesting to see what happens to him in the next two books no that he is in prison and his family name in ruins. I really doubt he is going to stay in prison long whether he is freed or he escapes.

[september1967.livejournal.com]

Hi, Penny. I happen to LOVE Sharp's and Kat's portrayal of Lucius and Narcissa in Restituere. Sharp's Lucius is the first time I've seen the character written with more than one or two dimensions. Its a tribute to the writer for making someone like me (who loves to hate the character) see him as human.

Of course on the other hand, I still like to see him as the bad guy. I think it is popular for the bad guy to be written as "bad" in stories. Depends of course on the point of the story and how well written it is.

Do I like canon!Malfoy? Yes I do, but I certainly love AUs and fanon enough to allow good writers show me another side to the character through their stories.

I think a good writer can write a one dimensional character into a three dimensional, feeling character, but sometimes its just a matter of preferences. Some people will never like fanon versions of stories, but its funny to me that the ones who seem to prefer canon stories are the ones to change their minds on a whim.

Bertina

[themostepotente.livejournal.com]

Hey there Bertina!

I've really enjoyed RPing alongside sharp_tongue and katbeseroc. They have lovely chemistry.

And they play a very believable Lucius and Narcissa.

Good to see more people are open-minded about Lucius' characterization :-)

[noblerot.livejournal.com]

He still bleeds. He still hurts. He's not invincible.

That just about says it all. To be a bastard, he has to be human first. And if he's human, he feels. I don't think the man lets it all hang out; I doubt he gets touchy feely with anyone, even Narcissa. But I do think they have a stable relationship -- one that probably includes infidelity, since old school male aristocrats tend to have a dalliances on the side. I also think he loves Draco in his own critical way.

In short, he can (and should) be a bastard and have a range of emotions and be three-dimensional. To write him any other way smacks of laziness. As for JKR -- I think she's presenting the Death Eaters as archetypes, not real characters. What a waste.

[themostepotente.livejournal.com]

I've noticed that most people agree that Narcissa tolerates his infidelities.

In short, he can (and should) be a bastard and have a range of emotions and be three-dimensional. To write him any other way smacks of laziness. As for JKR -- I think she's presenting the Death Eaters as archetypes, not real characters. What a waste.

It's a waste and a shame.