Fandom Discussion: Sirius and Disinheritance

[themostepotente]

Okay...

Sirius Black was disowned and presumably disinherited, right?

And I mean, what need of money does one have in Azkaban, right?

In PoA, Sirius buys Harry a Firebolt. This is not a cheap broom, mind you.

So where on fucking EARTH did Sirius get the money for this?

C'mon now, Swiss account? And even if he did still have an active account, I mean, like what the fuck, his financial advisor didn't rob his ass blind?

As funny as I find the idea of Sirius digging for a buried coffee can, the likelihood of his a.) finding it after a thirteen year stint at Azkaban, b.) fuck, I don't have a 'b'.

I'm also assuming he doesn't get willed the house at Grimmauld. He's the only one left in his immediate family, it just passes to him. And it's in such a shambles, is it really worth anything?

Well, yeah -- you get my meaning.

Ideas, people?

--P

Comments

[xochiquetzl]

U.S. Hardback edition, Prisoner of Azkaban, chapter 22 ("Owl Post Again"), page 433. "Crookshanks took the order to the Owl Office for me. I used your name but told them to take the gold from my own Gringotts vault."

The House of Black is probably entailed (link from an anonymous poster on cordelia_v's LJ when she asked this). This would mean that Mrs. Black couldn't leave the house to anyone but Sirius.

I'm not sure what that says about Gringott's security. ;) Or who has access to that money now. (It's Sirius' late Uncle Alphard's money--his mother did disinherit him.)

[rosefyre.livejournal.com]

Perhaps Sirius left the money in his vault to Harry in his will, and since Sirius is considered dead while he's in Azkaban, Harry can get money out of it? That's the best suggestion I've got.

[themostepotente.livejournal.com]

U.S. Hardback edition, Prisoner of Azkaban, chapter 22 ("Owl Post Again"), page 433. "Crookshanks took the order to the Owl Office for me. I used your name but told them to take the gold from my own Gringotts vault."

I have a strange feeling Crookshanks is an Animagus. I mean, a cat doing banking? I wonder if Crooky can balance my checkbook :P

[xylodemon.livejournal.com]

I may have to go look at the books-- I *swear* Sirius mentions something about being left a bit of money by a (great?) uncle who disliked Sirius' mother. And I want to say his name is Alfred. Alphard, maybe?

Or, I could be talking completely out of my arse.

[dphearson.livejournal.com]

No, you are not- Sirius did have an uncle"who left him a bit of gold".

Also, assuming that Sirius had a little money before going to school, it is possible that he had all that money for all those year sand did not get to use until Harry was 13-15. And then of course he would get Harry a broom, cool books and the like.

[themostepotente.livejournal.com]

It's Uncle Alphie all right.

So nope, no talking out of your arse. *chuckles*

[contrariwise.livejournal.com]

I think he says he got it from his uncle Alphard in OotP.

[themostepotente.livejournal.com]

He did :-)

*pings a beernut at Newell*

[starrysummer.livejournal.com]

He did mention having an uncle who left him some money. While I doubt it was as much as his parents would have were he the son they wanted, I'd imagine it's enough for a Firebolt. We're told that's a lot of money, but a lot of money by Harry's standards as a 13-year-old or to the Weasleys isn't that that much to someone who came from a wealthy family, even if he only had what his uncle gifted him.

[themostepotente.livejournal.com]

Well, under normal circumstances, I would have said he'd need what little he inherited from Uncle Alphie, but...

That's a moot point now, innit?

[lyricalnights.livejournal.com]

I wonder if you're actually capable of disinheriting someone in a wizarding family, whether you personally disown them or not. Does it actually say anywhere that he was disinherited, or just disowned?

Considering how much stock they place in bloodlines, it wouldn't surprise me if inheritance runs straight down the line of succession, no matter how a particular family member feels about their offspring.

In POA or GOF one, Sirius says he got the money for the Firebolt from his Gringott's account. (More precisely, Crookshanks orders the broom for him using his Gringott's account, which poses its own logistical difficulties.)

So obviously he had some funds that no one, not even his family, could tap. Perhaps Gringott's accounts are blood-keyed? As to where he got them, either Stubby Boardman did well during the hair-band years, or Sirius had some portion of his inheritance that couldn't be touched. Do wizards have trust funds?

[lyricalnights.livejournal.com]

I forgot about the convenient painted-shrew-hating uncle.

I still wonder how Gringott's vaults work. *g*

[rosefyre.livejournal.com]

My answer - his mother reinherited him when he "offed" the Potters and "showed his true colors."

Which he didn't.

But everyone (including dear old Mum) thought he did, and thus, even though he was in Azkaban, he was able to inherit when she died (though he probably couldn't actually access the money).

I figure she let him back into the family because he was finally showing the ideals that she wanted. *nods*

Though that doesn't explain why he's still not on the Tapestry...maybe you can't be put back on once you're off it?

[gmth.livejournal.com]

Ooh, that's a great premise for a fic.

[pinkfinity.livejournal.com]

There's a comment he makes in Book 5 that his uncle left him money, which presumably stocked the gringotts account that he has preIazkaban, and which, presumably, nobody could touch as long as he lived, without his permission.

[themostepotente.livejournal.com]

Sirius should have left a living will, but he probably didn't see much point after being disowned.

[kaiz.livejournal.com]

So where on fucking EARTH did Sirius get the money for this?

As other folks have mentioned, Sirius did have his own account at Gringotts. And it seems possible (likely?) to me that Gringotts and the Ministry don't have much to do with one another, therefore his account probably wouldn't have been 'frozen' when he was incarcerated in Azkaban. Maybe there is some special magical password that a person can use to access his account if he doesn't have, or can't present his key in person?

[themostepotente.livejournal.com]

Maybe there is some special magical password that a person can use to access his account if he doesn't have, or can't present his key in person?

Or a note -- like Hagrid gave Griphook in PS/SS.

[themostepotente.livejournal.com]

I've always thought the goblins stay fairly neutral, so wouldn't have flinched at Sirius coming in and getting money, as long as he had the correct identification.

Even with all of the 'Wanted' posters plastered everywhere? The reward for Black's capture had to be...large.

[scarah2.livejournal.com]

I think others answered this pretty well. I think the gold from his uncle just started him out, he wasn't disinherited at all and he did get the house and the rest of the Black money when his parents died.

And he's had a vault in his name the entire time. It's not like Muggles where they take your assets and sell your SUV at an auction and all. The goblins are like Switzerland for all intents and purposes. (They might not always stay that way, but that's how they are now.)

[themostepotente.livejournal.com]

And he's had a vault in his name the entire time. It's not like Muggles where they take your assets and sell your SUV at an auction and all. The goblins are like Switzerland for all intents and purposes.

A scary thought. The Goblins remind me of the Ferengi and you know how the Ferengi were about cash money.

[subliculous.livejournal.com]

I believe he took a few things back at JC Penney.

[imkalena.livejournal.com]

Sold his prison tattoos to a drug dealer . . .

[starkittyn.livejournal.com]

My assumption was that Mrs. Black couldn't actually disinherit Sirius since he was the last living heir.

I mean, surely she didn't want SPEW to get it. LOL

[themostepotente.livejournal.com]

Yeah, but Kreacher was anti-SPEW I'm sure :P

*unwraps your package*

[dphearson.livejournal.com]

About the house:

With ho land is handled in the UK and the UK real estate market in general, a broken down shack by a sewage treatment plant could easily go for L300K- and I am not exaggerating when I say that. So any witch or wizard who has a house of their own is really not doing too bad ( The Weasleys are included with this)

[themostepotente.livejournal.com]

I can just see it now...

Unique fixxer upper. Asking price? Make me an offer.

[charlotteschaos.livejournal.com]

I'm nearly positive there's a prostitute!Sirius fic out there that would explain this all.

[themostepotente.livejournal.com]

When you find the link, let us know!

[naltariel.livejournal.com]

Maybe his parents died before changed their will or even wrote their will? I think this is the most plausible explanation.

Also, there is big difference between disowning in a fit of rage and completely cut all connection with the child. In the books, we only see Sirius' mother's anger, but not his father's side. Maybe he was a lot calmer than his wife or had hopes that his son would return someday?

[themostepotente.livejournal.com]

Wasn't Mr. Black dead though -- and not a portrait?

[trobadora]

The Goblins sound like they are their own Switzerland, and the house was probably entailed.

[themostepotente.livejournal.com]

Apparently, it was entailed.

[neotoma.livejournal.com]

Sirius Black was disowned and presumably disinherited, right?

And presumably re-inherited after he came out on the Dark Lord's side. Everyone else believed it of him, so why not his mother.

C'mon now, Swiss account? And even if he did still have an active account, I mean, like what the fuck, his financial advisor didn't rob his ass blind?

Goblin bankers don't give a pig's ear for the Ministry. As for the active account... Harry's vault is still fine after ten years, so why wouldn't Sirius' be so after twelve years?

I'm also assuming he doesn't get willed the house at Grimmauld.

I suspect it's entailed. And possibly not just through the male line, as Mrs. Black the Portrait makes a big deal about it being the 'house of [her] fathers', not her husband's.

[themostepotente.livejournal.com]

Harry's vault is still fine after ten years, so why wouldn't Sirius' be so after twelve years?

I see your point, but Sirius was a convicted killer. It makes sense that the Ministry would freeze his assests.

[thescarletwoman.livejournal.com]

*pings the beernut back* *smirk*

Back on topic... I vaguely remember something in the books, and I can't quote where as my books are sitting on my bookshelf behind me and I'm too lazy to get off my bum and go GET them, but I seem to remember Sirius talking about being left money by his Uncle Alphard at one point in time. Thus, I beleive that's where he has the money to get Harry's Firebolt.

But still.. isn't that a dead giveaway when Sirius suddenly starts pulling vast amounts of money out of his vault at Gringott's that something's afoot? You'd think that a wanted criminal wouldn't be able to withdraw that kind of money.

[themostepotente.livejournal.com]

But still.. isn't that a dead giveaway when Sirius suddenly starts pulling vast amounts of money out of his vault at Gringott's that something's afoot? You'd think that a wanted criminal wouldn't be able to withdraw that kind of money.

This was kind of my point exactly.

I mean, fercrissakes, if the credit card companies see heavy activity on your account, they CALL you. Well, at least American Express does.