Fandom Discussion: Rarepairs and Response

[themostepotente]

I've been thinking about this for awhile, and I've just now gotten around to posting about it.

What is it about certain rarepairs and a lack of feedback that has some wondering; Is it worth my time to continue writing them?

I'm talking Snape/Lucius, Snape/Draco, Lucius/Sirius, Snape/Filch, and a host of others I can't think of right now, because fuckin' A it's 4 a.m., time for us vampiric types to be in their coffins.

But I mean c'mon -- Snape/Lucius? WTF, people. So effing hot, but every time I see a SS/LM fic, it gets next to no feedback. It doth boggles thy mind.

Snape/Draco is another one. I've seen some GORGEOUS Snaco, and yet the feedback SUCKS MY CYBERCOCK.

Not very encouraging, I can imagine, if you've ever wanted to attempt something different.

Someone once told me that Snarry, Harry/Draco, and Remus/Sirius comprises the backbone (skeletal system) of fandom. But man, what about the other systems?

So if you are a rarepairs writer, does the lack of feedback influence your writing them? Or do you just say 'Fuck the masses. I like it, and I'm still writing it!'

--P

Comments

Re: Reader perspective only

[imkalena.livejournal.com]

Snape/Lucius is not just usually dark, there's about zero possibility of a hopeful ending. Some fairly dark fic can have that, but Snape/Lucius? It's just not my cuppa, no matter how gorgeous the writing or how hot the men.

Same with Remus/Sirius. I've read a few fun MWPP-era fics, even though I'm not that interested in their school days, but I *really* don't want to read post-Azkaban R/S. It's a guaranteed unhappy ending. :)

[fluffyllama.livejournal.com]

Nope, doesn't worry me in the least. I still plan on writing the Snape/Lucius novel-length fic I have planned out, though scheduling it in is being a swine, because I have loads to finish first - but it's only so far down the list because I committed to other stuff first, not because I don't expect it to be widely read.

I'll write stuff mainly because it seems like a fun idea. I wrote everything from Harry/Stan Shunpike to Dumbledore/Aleister Crowley last year, heh.

Also, I find it hard to complain about levels of fb on LJ when it's better than anywhere else. With web stats I *know* how many people read fics at my site, and considering they go on to read more than one most times, presumably they like *something* on there. FB from there is tiny compared to LJ, though.

[themostepotente.livejournal.com]

Nope, doesn't worry me in the least. I still plan on writing the Snape/Lucius novel-length fic I have planned out, though scheduling it in is being a swine, because I have loads to finish first - but it's only so far down the list because I committed to other stuff first, not because I don't expect it to be widely read.

I still plan on making hot monkey love to it too after you've finished :-)

[ponderosa121.livejournal.com]

I don't write in HP, but in the other fandoms I do write for, I tend to play around a lot in the fringe pairings. Honestly the difference in the amount of feedback doesn't affect me. I'm not much of a feedback whore in the first place, but while getting a lot of feedback is an ego cookie, as long as the people I know who share the like of the pairing with me enjoy what I've written, I really don't care if its not reaching a greater audience.

[themostepotente.livejournal.com]

One of these days, Ponds, I hope you do dabble in HP fandom ficcing.

I mean, fuck, your art is smokin'. *G*

[tapedeck.livejournal.com]

Or do you just say 'Fuck the masses. I like it, and I'm still writing it!'

That's my attitude towards most things, to be honest.

[imkalena.livejournal.com]

Love your icon. Seems equivocal, but I assume that's the point. :)

[melpemone.livejournal.com]

I'm in the 'fuck the masses' category. I tend to find myself writing fics that I generally wouldn't read, and then becoming a fan of the pairing *backwards*, I suppose you could say. I've got a fic that has Snape/Lucius in it in the works, and I'm writing a Harry/Lucius as well. I don't actually read Lucius fic - I can't remember the last one I read - but I'm writing two of them. I know damn well they won't get much by way of feedback - hey, I'm proof of that :D - but I like the ideas and I think they'll make good fic, and that's enough for me.

[themostepotente.livejournal.com]

Well, I know one reader that will attack them. *G*

I lobe both pairings :-)

[ankhutenshi.livejournal.com]

Honestly, it's the writer's quality that gets me to read rare-pairing fics. An author who's writing keeps me guessing, for example, will get me to read just about anything.

When writing them, there has to be a certain dynamic with them (whether from canon or from my own theories) so as long as I can see that dynamic, I can get my head around the pairing, even if it's not one I write myself.

As far as feedback goes, I've actually found that rare-pairings get fewer, but better feedback -- like the readers want to justify what they're reading. By the same token, common pairings get tons of feedback, but too often it's just "That was really hot, write more" and IMNSHO, is only slightly more useful than not getting feedback at all.

My two denarii.

[themostepotente.livejournal.com]

As far as feedback goes, I've actually found that rare-pairings get fewer, but better feedback -- like the readers want to justify what they're reading. By the same token, common pairings get tons of feedback, but too often it's just "That was really hot, write more" and IMNSHO, is only slightly more useful than not getting feedback at all.

You make a very good point here, Jade. Thanks!

[iibnf.livejournal.com]

Huh... I would have thought Snape/Lucius would have been a popular pair!

But as a writer of rare pair slash, you just gotta do it for yourself. I know, if I wrote the Harry/Severus, (with lots of rape and kiddie porn) I'd probably draw in the feedback, but it's just not my colour.

Love the feedback, but it doesn't inspire creation. Only publication.

[xochiquetzl]

What she said, pretty much. Okay, I'm writing a bunch of Snape/Lupin lately and while my non-HP-fandom friends scratch their heads at me and ask if I'm nuts and tell me how random and bizarre that is, it's not that rare, IMHO. I used to get a lot more feedback in Stargate fandom, but I was writing the most popular slash pairing there. And I was writing humor to start with, which always gets more feedback than anything else.

And yes, I suspect that if I was writing very schmoopy Sirius/Remus first times set at Hogwarts when they were 14 or 15, Harry/Severus chan, or Draco/Harry "Draco isn't bad, he's just misunderstood and needs the love of a good man!" I'd get tons more feedback. My one Sirius/Remus fic, a short-short set during the first war when they suspected each other of being the spy, pretty much bombed. But it was a gift fic and the recipient liked it, so that's what counts.

I write stuff I want to read. Then I impose it on everyone else.

What I find discouraging is when a friend says, "Ewwwww. Well, I won't be reading that one!" Then I get the fuck over it and write it anyway. I take heart that no matter how rare and weird it is I can probably force my partner to read it. ;)

P.S. iibnf, I love your Snape/Hagrid fic.

[merrycontrary.livejournal.com]

I don't really think of myself as a rare pair author, but by your definition I am. I don't right Snape/Harry or Draco/Harry because they don't really interest me. I can imagine writing them because I had a bunny or I was challenging myself or it was for someone I knew reallyreally loved the pairing. I cannot for the life of me imagine writing it because I would get more feed back.

Remus/Sirius I haven't written yet, but I do love. Still, not forcing myself to write it just because it might get more attention.

Of the pairings I do write, I have not felt the desire, for example, to turn a Ron/Draco bunny into a Ron/Harry story simply because it is more popular.

Now, the caveat is that I've never got much feedback on anything. Maybe I don't know what I'm missing, and if I got recognition I would fight to keep it by any means.

[merrycontrary.livejournal.com]

Er, I've been homophone challenged of late. Please read "right" as "write."

[jeddy83.livejournal.com]

I don't know how much my habits as a reader will help since as a rule I tend to read authors not pairings. As in once I find an author I enjoy reading I will read just about anything they write. With a few notable exceptions (Snape/Draco being one), the featured pairing generally has little to do with my choices.

As a writer, it's all about the story I want to tell. Yes, writing certain characters will generate less feedback, but as long as I care about the story that's all that matters.

[themostepotente.livejournal.com]

I don't know how much my habits as a reader will help since as a rule I tend to read authors not pairings. As in once I find an author I enjoy reading I will read just about anything they write. With a few notable exceptions (Snape/Draco being one), the featured pairing generally has little to do with my choices.

I'm just the opposite. I read pairings. I discover a lot of new authors that way.

[pinkdormouse.livejournal.com]

I write because I want to read the stories that no one else seems to write, so the amount of feedback doesn't bother me so much, so long as the one or two people that feedback like it.

The thing that gets me is that when I've done rare pairings in various fandoms (rare as in big fandom, no one but me wrote it before as far as I know), most of my feedback implied that I had people convinced, but no one other than me is yet to write it. And another rare pairing is just me and one other person, even though that also has people claiming to be convinced in the feedback.

Gina

[themostepotente.livejournal.com]

I write because I want to read the stories that no one else seems to write, so the amount of feedback doesn't bother me so much, so long as the one or two people that feedback like it.

That's very true. You want to read something specific, sometimes you gotta take the bull by the horns.

[themostepotente.livejournal.com]

If I'm struck by an idea for a particular pairing, then I'm going to write that story, and if it gets 40 comments, great, but if it gets 1, that's okay too. I'll whine about the ingratitude of the fandom for 5 minutes and then move on, satisfied that I've written the best damn Bellatrix/Sprout fic (or whatever) I can.

I'm holding you to that Bellatrix/Sprout fic, dear :-)

[felonytexas.livejournal.com]

It's nice to get feed back. Very nice. Sort of...vindication. But I didn't think Snape/Lucious was a rare pairing....I mean it seems sort of logical to me. But that could explain why I can't find any fics about them. I've been working on a Snape/Lucious fic for some time now, unable to really force myself to sit down and write it (I don't really understand Lucious so it makes it harder for me to write about him).

I dunno, I like feed back. But it doesn't determine what I write. I write whatever strikes my fancy, or whatever some one else goads me into writing...or comissions from me...or begs and pleads for...I'm weak what can I say?

[themostepotente.livejournal.com]

It's nice to get feed back. Very nice. Sort of...vindication. But I didn't think Snape/Lucious was a rare pairing....I mean it seems sort of logical to me. But that could explain why I can't find any fics about them. I've been working on a Snape/Lucious fic for some time now, unable to really force myself to sit down and write it (I don't really understand Lucious so it makes it harder for me to write about him).

I don't really consider it a 'rare pair' either, but I've observed the feedback is seriously lacking.

[anathdemalfoy.livejournal.com]

I'm another 'fuck the masses' type. If I love a character or pairing or have a plotbunny that won't let me alone, I'll write it. (I've just started slashing ANGELS of all things on my other LJ!!!). If an idea takes my fancy or gets me hot, I'll write it and damn the consequences. In HP fandom, I've written such unusual couplings as Lucius/Walden Macnair and Tonks/Olympe Maxime, and they've been received OK.

Feedback is nice to get, but it's not the be-all and end-all. I'm writing because I love writing, not to be a BNF or popular author. Hell, I'm thrilled if even one person says they like the fic! And it's a real honour when someone likes my writing enough to read a pairing they wouldn't normally read!

Thank you for this discussion - it's definitely something that needed to be brought up!

Love & Serpents' Kisses,
Anath.

[themostepotente.livejournal.com]

I'm another 'fuck the masses' type. If I love a character or pairing or have a plotbunny that won't let me alone, I'll write it. (I've just started slashing ANGELS of all things on my other LJ!!!). If an idea takes my fancy or gets me hot, I'll write it and damn the consequences. In HP fandom, I've written such unusual couplings as Lucius/Walden Macnair and Tonks/Olympe Maxime, and they've been received OK.

You do love your Lucius/Walden :-)

[ldybastet.livejournal.com]

Well, as you know I'm a Snape/Lucius, Lucius/Sirius and Lucius/Draco writer... and yeah, feedback isn't that common. I can agree with ine commenter though. Often the feedback I do get tends to be a lot more than OMG!!11!SQUEEEE!!!!!1URITESOGUD!!11!!!!!!!eleventyone! I have received some absolutely wonderful (and ego-boosting) feedback on the one Jonathan Harker/Dracula fic I have posted for example. And yes, getting that kind of FB gives a feeling of Yay! for a while. But it's not the reason I write a story or a pairing. If it was, I'd be writing loads more Snape/Lupin because even the tiniest thing about them I've written has received more FB... or the recent Harry/Sirius. I was staring at aff.net when I saw it had 216 hits after 24 hours. Still no FB though, MWAHAHAHHAHHA!

I write the pairings that feel relevant to me, the story that bites me and tells me it needs to be written. I love it when a plot won't let go and inspiration really hits. There's no time then to think about whether this is a popular pairing or not, if anyone will read or how much feedback I'll get. I just need to write it, and I love doing it. It's a joy.

SO, fuck the masses! Severus/Lucius is Teh Hawt! *hopes for more well-written Luverus*

[themostepotente.livejournal.com]

SO, fuck the masses! Severus/Lucius is Teh Hawt! *hopes for more well-written Luverus*

Your Lucius is hot too :-)

[ani-bester.livejournal.com]

Can I answer as just a rare character artist? It kind applies to art to in that those three catagories

I go for the "fuck the masses" attitude usually. I know when I draw say Peter/Remus, I'm probably not going to get the responses I did when I drew my Harry/Draco fic, and most of the responses are going to netspeak wierdness about how dare I slash evilstupidugly Peter with Remus the saintly sex god.

Fandom drawing for me is enjoyable because it the one kind of art I do right now where I don't need to worry about it being graded or needing to please someone else.

Yeah loads of feedback is wodnerful, but if I have to start only doing what people like when i draw fanart as well, I'll probably go insane ^^

That said, if you stop writing Lucius/Sirius, I'll cry.

[themostepotente.livejournal.com]

I'm probably not going to get the responses I did when I drew my Harry/Draco fic, and most of the responses are going to netspeak wierdness about how dare I slash evilstupidugly Peter with Remus the saintly sex god.

I totally wanna see your Peter/Remus now. Leave a link, please!

[schmoo999.livejournal.com]

I am not a writer but I am a big time reader. I try my best to leave feedback when I love a piece. But I should think as a writer you writer what you have a passion for and to hell whether people like it or not.

And besides Lucius and Snape, when well done, is just nummy and swoon worthy..lol

<333
~me

[themostepotente.livejournal.com]

And besides Lucius and Snape, when well done, is just nummy and swoon worthy..lol

It is at that. calixta9 and I are supposed to be collaborating on this pairing soon :-)

[moshi.livejournal.com]

'Fuck the masses. I like it, and I'm still writing it!'

That pretty much sums up how I feel about it, and I write a lot of rarepairs. I really enjoy playing around with new things. If others enjoy reading it, then hurrah. If not, well there's not much I can do about it.

Pairings like Harry/Draco, Remus/Sirius and Snape/Harry are often much more stressful for me to write than things like Lucius/Sirius or Charlie/Draco. *g*

[inell.livejournal.com]

Pairings like Harry/Draco, Remus/Sirius and Snape/Harry are often much more stressful for me to write than things like Lucius/Sirius or Charlie/Draco. *g*

Okay, I'm speaking from a het POV but OMG! I so agree! It is much more stressful for me to write Draco/Hermione or attempt Ron/Hermione or Harry/Hermione than it is to write 5000+ words on a Marcus/Hermione or Lucius/Hermione or Twins/Hermione! Sorry, I just noticed this and had to say something because I wondered at times if it was just me who found some of the more uncommon pairings (even those with major canon characters) easier to write than the more "popular" pairings.

Inell

[seventines.livejournal.com]

I'm definitely a rarepairs writer by preference. I like exploring the little nooks and crannies of canon. I don't have an OTP, so I'll write whatever strikes me as an interesting idea or character interaction. The most popular pairing I've written is probably Ron/Draco (at least it generated more feedback, so I'm guessing it's more popular than Severus/Charlie and Severus/Regular or Marietta/Pansy).

I like the feedback, but for two reasons. First, I want to know that what I'm writing is good and (hopefully) improving. So I'd hate to think that what I think is good is woefully lacking by general standards. That leads to the second reason I like feedback: I'd like my writing to improve over time, and though I think I'm quite good at critiqueing my own stuff, in the end, it helps to get an external view.

Having said all that, I just wrote an H/D (for a birthday request) and it didn't hurt too much ;-)

[themostepotente.livejournal.com]

Severus/Regulus is a rare pair I would DEFINITELY love to see more of.

Go you!

[underlucius.livejournal.com]

well, you already know my answer to this one.

I started off in the in Snape FQF, but didnt write any - then i wrote a few SB/RL, but Lucius was always my love.

So nah. I will never sell out just to get feedback. I KNOW I write all right, and I write to please me, and to practice my "art" so I can improve my original writing. So sod it! I shall continue to write Ron/Draco and Lucius/Sirius and sod the system!!!

*depressing tho that I havent even been invited to PSA or rarepairs*

:D

xxx

[themostepotente.livejournal.com]

Is there an invite only rarepairs community?

[mortifyd.livejournal.com]

Fuck the masses. I'm so sick of Snarry I could puke at this point - I want Snape/Filch, Snape/Hagrid - hell, I'm thinking of going back to Snape/Lockhart! (even Snape/Dumbledore!) I'm just not feeling the writing groove with all the things going on at the moment, but Snape/Lucius = YUMMY.

It's not the lack of feedback that prevents me from being more prolific - it's lack of time more than anything else. and an addiction to RPS drabbles

[themostepotente.livejournal.com]

The Mort is sick of the Snarry? *gasp*

Can I quote you? *G*

[bunney.livejournal.com]

I'm more of a "fuck the masses, I'm writing it anyway" writer, but then I write primarily het and that's the red-headed stepchild of fandom :) I've not always had this outlook, but when my earlier work got no feedback at all, it was either write what I like and the hell with popular opinion, or stop writing. And I'm not prepared to go *that* far.

Great post...gave me a little something to think about regarding my support of rarepairs.

[inell.livejournal.com]

I forced you into write me Marcus/Hermione because I was the only one who liked this pairing and it was so rare people were like "WTF?" and you gave in to my whining and begging encouragement and have since written one of the best fics I've ever read which just happens to be M/Hr, a pair that most people go "eew" about and don't even both reading that brilliant Dying by Degrees and it makes me more grrr that people don't read the rare pair fics and comment if the only reason is because they won't give a rare pair a chance *I understand not liking a certain character or ship and have no problems with people reading what they like but to just dismiss a pairing without at least attempting to read one fic without that personal dislike for said character sort of makes me growl at times...*. Of course, I like some rare pairs with characters that are barely in canon as well as some rare pairs with major charactes from canon. And I'm rambling and make no sense. LMAO...It makes me more upset when I see others writing fantastic stories that moved me and made me laugh, cry, turn up the AC and not getting feedback than if I write a rare pair that doesn't get feedback. I know that's odd, but I can't help thinking people might let the lack of feedback discourage them from writing the rare pair plot bunnies or possible convince them that what they're writing isn't good in comparison to the knowledge that people might not like the pairing and then they get discouraged and leave fandom completely. That sort of things makes me sigh and growl and I try my best to spread the word on some of the rare pair fic I've read and enjoyed. And, hey, I have a few more people reading some rare pairs after my recs so maybe that is a positive sign? And isn't het just so the red-headed stepchild? LMAO...Oh well, I write for myself, whether that be het, smut, rare pairs, or popular pairs. *hugs Bunney*

Penny has some great thoughtful discussions on her LJ.

Inell

[amanuensis1.livejournal.com]

If it mattered enough, I suppose people would say, "F*ck it, I'm not writing any more plotbunnies that aren't Harry/Draco, Harry/Snape, or Remus/Sirius, because those are the only ones that garner me decent feedback." (except no one uses the word garner these days, do they, because you say garner to people and they go, "Ooh, Alias fanfic?" Okay, /Dennis Miller mode.)

But people don't say that, do they? They say, "Whoa, I have an idea for a Snape/Ron that will not be denied!" And they write it and post it, and, admittedly, even if it's good, it gets less feedback than a story for a more popular pairing. The author notices this, and either it's an "oh, well" twinge or a "goddamn Snarriers!" pile of resentment--but that doesn't shut down the Albus/Filch or the Harry/Voldemort or the McGonagall/Trelawney plotbunnies, now, does it? And with the next good hard bunny bite, we're rabid and we're off, aren't we.

Good fanfic finds its appreciative audience, like all good stories will, no matter what form of media they're in--books, movies, etc. And no, the best Bill/Shacklebolt story out there will never win over the pretty-darn-good Harry/Draco story in a poll (partly because a huge percentage of the voters won't even read the Bill/Shacklebolt, sadly)--but that doesn't mean there aren't five hundred people out there who are so damn glad that Bill/Shacklebolt story came into being. And that's terrific, if you ask me.

[imkalena.livejournal.com]

*snicker*

Snarriers . . . why did I just get this image of very small hovering fighter planes . . . or very small yappy dogs. :)

[rillathegrape.livejournal.com]

I love rare pairs. Snucius is one of my favorite things on earth. I do have to admit that as much as I love them, I'm more likely to write a rare pairing as a one-shot than a longer fic possibly because of the feedback issue. I don't want to pour huge portions of time into something no one's going to read, you know? But on the other hand, I like writing it. Most of the rare pairings I've written have been het (Arthur/Hermione, Narcissa/Dumbledore, Snape/Luna), but a few have been slash. I love the challenge of making it believable.

I wrote a Percy/Charlie once that was not only rare, but it carried the incest squick and posted it on an archive. The funny thing is that it got tons of hits and almost no feedback. I'm wondering if sometimes people don't want to admit that they like something (Snape/Filch would probably fall into this category too), so they just don't comment?

[themostepotente.livejournal.com]

I wrote a Percy/Charlie once that was not only rare, but it carried the incest squick and posted it on an archive. The funny thing is that it got tons of hits and almost no feedback. I'm wondering if sometimes people don't want to admit that they like something (Snape/Filch would probably fall into this category too), so they just don't comment?

Snape/Filch is my fandom guilty pleasure :-)

[tipgardner.livejournal.com]

Hmm...my reading tends more to be driven by the writing qualities of the author. Do I like the style, structure, plot, etc.? That tends to drive me more than the pairing.

As far as writing is concerned, I haven't found an appreciable lowering or rise in feedback for my rareslash pairings versus my H/D for the most part. I find that if I post to the comms, I get more feedback, regardless of pair. Even my Patilcest got a decent amount of feedback in spite of warnings that I didn't think I'd managed to pull it off well at all. So, I would say if one's voice resonates with a good core of readers, even if it's a small number of readers as in my case, one will receive decent feedback.

I think to grow one's readership, if that is goal, a focus on more common pairs might make sense. But if that's not the concern, than I would say write what you like, just make it well written.

[themostepotente.livejournal.com]

I think to grow one's readership, if that is goal, a focus on more common pairs might make sense. But if that's not the concern, than I would say write what you like, just make it well written.

Some people, like atdelphi started out writing rare pairs, and have managed to become the exception. She does well writing Snape/Filch and Snape/Dumbledore.

fuck the masses with a caveat

[jenna-thorn.livejournal.com]

It seems that "fuck the masses' is the overwhelming response but I can't write only for myself. or I could, but then I wouldn't need a journal.

As much as I love the random feedback from strangers (and I do, oh absolutely I do, with wildly swinging arms and bubbling laughter, I do) I write for a very small group of people.

I write for cluegirl, fyre_bird, cincodemaygirl you, amanuesis1, myself... . And those people like my wierd stuff, my head-tilt crossovers and God playing Skeeball.

So it's not so much that I don't depend on feedback, because to some extent or another, I think we all do. No response = no audience and if I have no audience there's no reason to write down the lines and the images.

But I've never gotten huge amounts of feedback on anything, so I'm content with one or two people saying, "Damn, you got her voice down, babe." when I write the meandering introspection of a minor character. Or one person whose opinion I value saying "You know I don't particularly like Molly, but you made my heart hurt for her."

And that's enough to keep me going.

Re: fuck the masses with a caveat

[themostepotente.livejournal.com]

It seems that "fuck the masses' is the overwhelming response but I can't write only for myself. or I could, but then I wouldn't need a journal.

So true. I'm glad you said this :-)