themostepotente | Fandom Discussion: Rarepairs and Response

Fandom Discussion: Rarepairs and Response

I've been thinking about this for awhile, and I've just now gotten around to posting about it.

What is it about certain rarepairs and a lack of feedback that has some wondering; Is it worth my time to continue writing them?

I'm talking Snape/Lucius, Snape/Draco, Lucius/Sirius, Snape/Filch, and a host of others I can't think of right now, because fuckin' A it's 4 a.m., time for us vampiric types to be in their coffins.

But I mean c'mon -- Snape/Lucius? WTF, people. So effing hot, but every time I see a SS/LM fic, it gets next to no feedback. It doth boggles thy mind.

Snape/Draco is another one. I've seen some GORGEOUS Snaco, and yet the feedback SUCKS MY CYBERCOCK.

Not very encouraging, I can imagine, if you've ever wanted to attempt something different.

Someone once told me that Snarry, Harry/Draco, and Remus/Sirius comprises the backbone (skeletal system) of fandom. But man, what about the other systems?

So if you are a rarepairs writer, does the lack of feedback influence your writing them? Or do you just say 'Fuck the masses. I like it, and I'm still writing it!'

--P

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With every fandom I've been involved in, I have always loved what would be considered a rare pair. If I am the only person on this earth who likes it, I still have to write it. I started writing slash when I had no one to share it with, so I really write for myself. Feedback is wonderful, but the desire to write is even greater than that. So if no one reads my stories or comments, it's okay because I still have to write them anyway. :) (I love Snape/Lucius. That is my favorite pairing in HP.)

One of the things that drives me absolutely crazy is that I still get more feedback for my Snape/Harry fics (a pairing which I haven't written in over a YEAR) than I do for my Snape/Draco fics.

Sometimes that's disheartening because I think my Snape/Draco stories are a much better caliber of writing than my Snape/Harry...I'm more comfortable with canon and fanon now and I've had more practice writing and I just get the characters and dynamic better than I did with Snape/Harry. And yet I get squees over stories that I personally feel are not my best work merely because they're Snape/Harry. And that's frustrating to me as a writer, since it's almost as if, hey, all we care about is the pairing, not the quality of work.

*shrug* But I generally just try to shake it off. I like writing pairings like Snape/Draco and Snape/Lucius and Harry/Ron and Ron/Draco and Harry/Percy and so what if most people don't read them? I'm writing because I like the characters and the story.

Although I will admit wistfully that sometimes I wish that rarepairs authors did get the recognition they deserve. I personally think some of the most creative and best writing in this fandom comes from people who take a not-so-popular pairing and just knock it out of the park.

So if you are a rarepairs writer, does the lack of feedback influence your writing them?

In a word: yes.

I don't mean that in a "I'm taking my ball and going home" way. Rather, I always have far more ideas for fic than I have time to write. So if I have an idea about pairing A and one about pairing B, the amount of fb I got last time I wrote those pairings will be a factor in deciding which to write. Not the only factor, but definitely significant.

Feedback is like market research for authors. It doesn't just say "I liked your story", it says "please write more stories like that one".

For me, at least, fanfic is primarily a community experience. I write to share. So, I'd prefer to share something that other people want to read.

You certainly have a valid point and it's most definitely not fair that some pairings, not even that rare pairings, are shunned by fandom. I'm not one to get much fb anyway, but it really wouldn't make any bloody difference if I got none. Well, it might, but I'd pin it down on my poor writing skills and not the choice of pairing. At least the ones that actually do leave some comment have enjoyed both the writing and the pairing, and if there's only so few of them, that's still just fine with me. Sincerity over numbers, is what I say:)

But if Snarry, H/D and Remus/Sirius make up the skeleton, then I'd suggest that...

Snape/Lucius - the brain (more cunning than Cunning McCunning),

Snape/Draco - the burning red bottom (I can't think of those two without a good, hard spanking)

Snape/Filch - the tongue (rather a exciting combination of finesse and crudeness, both equally stinging)

Lucius/Sirius - the hair (who can get the image of platinum white mixing with raven black out of their mind any time soon?)

and, at last & a bit biased,

Snape/Black - the bollocks, because, well, so fucking hot (please excuse the OTPer;)

And who would have thought the fandom was male?:P

I'm definitely a rare pairs writer. I think only one ship that I really write (and haven't in a while) is what would be termed a "popular" ship. I love feedback, who doesn't? However, I write the characters I love to write and I don't care if they're rare or not. I mostly write het, of course, and your discussion seems aimed at slash, but it counts in het just as much as slash. I also prefer rare ships for my slash. I love Draco/Remus, Snape/Black, Draco/Sirius, Severus/Lucius and Sirius/Lucius is my favorite slash pair and one I've even attempted to write a few times. I can appreciate Draco/Snape because the dynamic works. I'm actually not much of a fan of the "popular" ships, never reading Draco/Harry and rarely reading Sirius/Remus or Severus/Harry. Do I wish I received more feedback for the fics I've spent hours and hours writing? Heck yes. Do I regret spending five hours writing a Lucius/Narcissa, Hermione/Twins, Hermione/Adrian, Hermione/Marcus, Hermione/Blaise, Hermione/Pansy, or Hermione/Lucius? No way. I love writing the ships I enjoy and one reason I tend to focus so much on the rare pairs is because there is such a lack of fic out there to read so I sort of just write my own *grin* It would be stupid of me to think that everyone is going to embrace and love the rare pairs that I enjoy so I try not to let the lack of feedback lead me into writing a Draco/Hermione just to get reviews unless I've got an idea that really appeals to me and must be written.

By the way, I may be about ready to start brainstorming that Sirius/Lucius/Narcissa with you, if you'd like. I've only got one deadline left and it's for March so I should be okay if you're still wanting to play around with me with that fic *grin*

Inell

I'll be the first to admit that I have a complex little network of mental filters when it comes to deciding if I'm going to write a story idea or let it die in bad-plotbunny-hell. However, those filters deal with concepts and events and whatnot, rather than pairings. When it comes to pairings, I'll tend to write whatever I like, regardless of popularity.

I can't speak well for HP, because I've written very little so far, and it's not been rarepairs. In my other fandom, though, some of the people I write, general fans haven't even really heard of. If those aren't rarepairs, I don't know what are. *g* Still, though, I've never particularly gotten wild amounts of feedback in any fandom, so I don't necessarily notice much of a difference.

Though, I do tend to blame a complete lack of feedback, which happens occasionally, on shoddy writing skills when it's my own work.

Screw the masses. I always assumed that I just wasn't a very good writer in comparison with the people who drown in feedback - then I wrote one less-than-rare pairing and found myself bombarded. And you know what? Rather than being encouraged to keep writing more mainstream characters, it instead made me feel rather protective of my rarepairs, and more determined than ever to keep writing them.

*ponders* Now that I think on it, I've written rare pairings in the all the fandoms I've been in - not deliberately, but because I tend to be most interested in characters who aren't conventionally handsome/pretty, and that's something that most smut-writers seem to shy away from.

Rarepair Writing: It's often a thankless job, but somebody's got to do it :-P

I write quite a bit of stuff that could be considered rarepair or, at least, slightly-obscure-pair. It is depressing when you don't get much feedback, especially when you see the Harry/Draco shippers being showered with praise from all angles. However, I'm not going to stop writing, because I enjoy what I write and besides, introducing a few more people, however few they might happen to be, to a particular new pairing is never a bad thing! Of course, if anyone wants to send a bit more publicity my way, I wouldn't be saying no... ;D

It does and it doesn't, really. It did a lot last summer when I was writing pr0n like a madthing--which sort of led me to actually trying my hand at a damn Snarryfic, even though I haven't even thought the ship was plausible for two years, and that got me the most comments for anything I've written, ever--but since about August or so, when I burnt out, I've just been writing whomever (and usually it's with

ataniell93 as a partner.)

Of course, my thing is that while a lot of my OTPish ships are either rare as hell (Moody/OMC, Sirius/Peter) or at least medium obscure (Lucius/Percy), I'm also really very fond of Harry/Draco done right. So I really don't know.

I'm not a huge fan of H/D (in fact, I will read it very rarely, just because it seems like it is done far too often.) I quite like Snape/Lucius fics, when I'm not reading Lucius/Hermione, etc.

Can't say that I've seen too many S/D fics -- I should keep my eye out for those.

I don't write in the HP fandom, but I'm starting to think I should, just to touch on some of the pairings that get left behind :)

I totally agree with your sentiments on Snucius- Why isn't there more of it? And why don't more people read/review it? I mean, that's why I got into fandom in the first place! I don't even really like the more commonplace pairings all that much (read: H/D). I mean, come on! You're totally right about the hotness. If you ask me, they're the hottest guys in the fandom. But that's just one little slasher's opinion.

Snaco, too. There ought to be more. Given my penchant for L/S/D, Anything involving any combination of Lucius, Severus, and Draco attracts my attention.

*g* I'm a fuck the masses kinda girl myself. I write H/D because I like it, yes, and the feedback I get makes me happy, but FUCK if I'm going to go write Snarry or puppyfic just for a few cheap 'omg i loved it wrtie mor kthx!11!!'

My favourite pairings, aside from H/D, get little attention largely because they don't include Gryffindors. I so rarely write stuff with Gryffindors who aren't Harry, and when I do, they're usually Slytherin-centric fics with the Dark twined in hard. Hell, I love Lucius/Remus, but they're always non-con, and mostly full of torture. But even if that means I get 10 comments instead of 100, I'm sure as hell not going to be changing what I write just to please people. If I want to write for other people, I sign up for ficathons or take drabble requests. But I'm not writing for other people most of the time. I'm writing for me. Even if I write a fic for someone else, it's still me, because I want to write it.

And sometimes, your fics end up really surprising you. Hell, the Tom/Myrtle I just wrote? I expected three readers, and I had them pegged. I ended up with more like twenty, and people are still reading, and I know people have read who haven't reviewed.

In any case...I write what I want, and if people don't feel like reading it? Their loss. :D

You are forgetting one very important thing: At one point, Snape/Harry was a rarepair, too. ;-)

Just give fandom some time...I've been in fandom for a while, and when I started out, there were about five Sirius/Harry fics in total. Now look at that pairing...it can't really be considered a rarepair anymore, methinks. The same goes for Remus/Harry. Just to name a few pairings I've always loved, read and written, even when hardly anyone else was interested in them.

Of course, another major issue is that a lot of people just aren't that interested in the minor characters in the books. Some of those characters are little more than a name (Blaise, anyone?). So, yeah, I'm not surprised that characters who play a more central part in the books (Harry, Ron, Sirius, Snape, etc) have more 'fans'. I'm certainly someone who's very picky about minor characters, and thus there are plenty of rarepairs I don't read or write. But on the other hand, when I have an idea for a story, I'll write it, no matter how popular a pairing is or isn't.

Couple things from a non-writer of rarepairs, but the responses gave me some thoughts.

1. I have to write what comes to me - I have killed characters I adore to write the story that came to me, and I never thought I would do that. Rare pairs do not come to me. I don't know why that is. Maybe they are rare because one of the pair truly does not have wide-spread appeal. I tried my first fic gift exchanges late last year. Forcing myself to write pairs I didn't "feel" was one of the hardest things I've ever done. Some writers can write anything, period. Some of us need our specific characters. Damn the luck, because I wish I could just write for writing's sake.

2. Dedicated fans. Every pair needs dedicated fans.

I just cut long comments on my experiences and quests with Snape/Lupin. It seemed egotistical. Bottom line: If the general "you" wants more of a pairing, you have to chase it down and nurture it and encourage it and do something for it, whenever you can. Even if it makes "you" a big pairing ho. ;)

love, lore

I'm sometimes a bit bitter about Lucius/personwhoisnotNarcissa, but even I'll admit *albeit in a whisper* Snape/Lucius is teh hot. So hot.
I mean, Snape has to work for a living, why the fuck would they be hanging around? Sex, duh.

ahahahah. Icon love.

Don't fuck the masses, you don't know where they've been. :oD

I find it hard to force myself to write anything. If an idea doesn't kick my muse in the crotch, my muse doesn't move -- she's lazy that way. I can't tell you how many times I've started a fic with one pairing or storyline in mind, only to find the fic had other ideas. I also find it hard to keep writing one pairing, even if it's a pairing I really love. In short, I write what strikes me, pairing be damned.

That is not to say I haven't been influenced by feedback. There are certain reviews that touch me so personally that I want to write more and more, be it a pairing or a genre or whatnot. Positive feedback has made me want to keep writing a pairing, but it have never made me not want to try a pairing again if an idea struck me.

Fuck the masses. I like it, and I'm still writing it.

Because really? It's fun! Who the hell wants to write another H/D? (Okay, well, me, but that's because I like to write all kinds of things.) When we write lesser-known characters, we get to put more of what we want to see in it. We can grab the one or two things we know about a character's personality and run with them and we can make the argument for our fics however we like.

As my own example of this: Going into writing Like the Finest Gold (My fics=not canon, not anyone's example but my own), I didn't know anything about James Potter except that he played Quidditch and liked to break rules. The knowledge about rule-breaking allowed me to give him all kinds of rules to break, and it made the story fun to write. He didn't have the restrictions on his character that, say, Harry and Draco do.

Basically, the more we know about a canon character, the less fun they are to write.

To be honest, I think it's a question of critical mass.

Maybe it seems like Snape/Harry is a staple of fandom now, but once upon a time, it, too, was a rarepair!!! It wasn't until after the Snape Fuh-Q Fest that the critical mass of SS/HP happened.

So, IMO, write the stuff you want to write. If enough people start writing that pairing, a critical mass will form. I've been in plenty of other fandoms where rarepairs ended up being 'cornerstone of fandom' pairings, both het and slash. So, um, yeah. Maybe it'll take a little while for enough Snape/Lucius or Snape/Draco or Draco/Stan Shunpike or whatever authors to get fannish mindshare, but eventually, in a few years, people will be saying, "Geez, what's with all the Snape/Lucius? How come nobody's writing Snape/OtherHawtCharacterDuJour?"

Responding purely as an artist, since I can't write for beans...

It's frustrating to know that because I draw the characters most never think of, that I never draw Draco, and I refuse to have anything to do with the pairings that form, as you say, the 'backbone' of the fandom, it means I get far less feedback.

Not that it stops me. I won't draw pairings or things simply because they're popular, no matter how much I'd like more exposure for the one thing I can actually do. That would be boring, tedious, and somewhat... cheap, I think.

If drawing the more obscure characters means I get less feedback, so be it. I'd rather that than drawing Sirius/James/Snarry and what have you and receive a bunch of squeeing rubbish for it. Rarepairers are far more intelligent, I find. >_>

I've written a (teenaged) Barty Crouch Jr./Quirinus Quirrell fic that I haven't gotten a single review on. It's a piece I'm damn proud of, too, so it bums me out. I've gotten more feedback on my Snape/Draco (written years ago and recently reposted) but not a ton.

Still... I write what I'm moved to write. Who knows how much feedback the Remus/Percy I'm writing with

randomsalad is going to get (or for that matter the SS/RL we did a draft of that I've been too depressed to work on, since it's kind of bleak), but it's what we're moved to write, so it's what we write.

Is Severus/Lucius really a rarepair? I suppose in terms of fics written it is, though it plays a backing role in a lot of fics. I thought a lot of people shipped it, and therefore with the tiny amount of fics you'd think it'd get tonnes of feedback. But alas, no.

I write 'rarepairs' and popular pairings - it still peeves me that people prefer to read and review my substandard H/D fics of two years ago rather than focussing on whatever I'm writing now. That said, I'm not going to stop writing just because I don't get feedback. I'm going to keep writing with the optimistic thought that maybe it's just my writing that needs to improve, and I'll get feedback next time.

Feedback makes me giggle and squee, but honestly - I can (and do) live without it.

Besides, I know I have friends who only read the popular pairings - unless it was something written by [insert their favourite author here]. So give it a while, and with good writing people's minds will broaden and the fandom pop culture will expand. :)

To be perfectly honest, I write stories about characters that interest me, which can be major or minor. Then I finish and say 'hey, it's gen, no one reads gen' and throw in a few lines of gayness.

Works nearly every time.

Also, the most feedback I ever got was for a gennish story focusing on a rarepair (Goyle/Snape, of all things). So, yanno, blow me, I dunno what the fuck's up with that. Maybe if it's wacky enough people will read it just out of curiousity. Like, how on earth would one write Neville/Dudley? I'd read that fic just to find out.

Possibly what I'm about to say has been beaten to death, I'm not sure because I haven't read every single comment. But anyway. Though feedback is nice, it's not what I write for. I think the problem is that the rarepairs are less visible, recced less often because fewer people like them, and thus read less often, which translates into less feedback. But I'm among those who do their damnedest to leave some sort of feedback for everything I read, and I know that's not the case with everyone.
I'm *still* getting reviews from the horrible Harry/OOC!Draco stuff I wrote two years ago. If I wrote for the reviews, I suppose I'd go finish that stuff. I started writing Snape/Harry just at the tail end of when it was still a rarepair, though, and I actually get less feedback for it now than I did then. Possibly because I'm not the world's greatest writer, and with the popularity of the pairing there are better authors than me writing it.

Er. Anyway. I think I'm rambling, and I don't have a real conclusion to draw from any of this, so I'll shut up. :)

So if you are a rarepairs writer, does the lack of feedback influence your writing them? Or do you just say 'Fuck the masses. I like it, and I'm still writing it!'

I write weird stuff, like Snape/Shacklebolt, Snape/Dumbledore and Snape/Molly, because there is a 'what if' component involved. Snape/Harry used to be very rare indeed, but I am interested in exploring snape characters with the adults in the background of teh story. How do they accept? COuld they accept they accept him? What goes through his mind when Snape does not decide to torture children for the day?

My feedback meter is very small, but it tends to be rather thoughtful, so I really don't mind small amounts of feedback at all.

In terms of what I write, I'm definitely a "fuck the masses" girl. But it does bother me that fewer people are interested in what I'm writing. I think part of it is my frame of reference-- I'm friends with some really really amazing authors who do write more widely-read pairings.

But... while I suppose I probably could sit down one evening and write seventh year Harry and Draco having some snide but witty banter in the corridor and then shagging in the broom closet, it just wouldn't interest me. Maybe I'd get some positive feedback (or maybe not because it'd be uninspired and kinda lame), but personally, I wouldn't get much out of it.

As far as pairings go, I'll write *any* pairing. Seriously. From Harry/Draco to Remus/Boggart/Whomping Willow/Grindylow. Someone dares me, I get an idea... I go. But the way I like to see the more popular pairings is usually a lot darker and more violent than the way most of the fans of those pairings like to see them. As someone commented earlier, darkness doesn't do it for her. My fic? Even if it's H/D or R/Hr, it's still going to be pretty fucking dark. So it's not just pairing, it's taste, when it comes down to it. And apparently I'm a wee bit twisted. But I can indulge in that in fandom and enjoy it- whether I'm the one writing it, or you or Liz or Anj, or someone else who's not writing to the critical mass.

That does not, however, mean that I don't enjoy bitching and moaning about it from time to time. I've made my decision- I write what I want to write, I write for the people that inspire me. But, yeah, I'd certainly wish there were more people out there who shared my tastes.

Heh, and speaking of popular pairings done unpopular ways, I have this Harry/Ginny banging around in my head that half of fandom will skip because it's Harry/Ginny and the other half will run away from because it's going to be really fucking twisted. If I ever write it...

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