On titling fics
Jul. 17th, 2004 02:41 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
I'm hard pressed to admit -- sometimes the title of a fic is the deciding factor on whether or not I read it.
Titles can be very eye catching, and sometimes I need that stimulus (can I call it this?) to attract my attention.
Witty, clever, thought provoking -- anything really. I just need to make that connection.
To me, there is nothing worse than a poorly titled fic. Does anyone else share these sentiments?
Do poor titles affect your judgement? Does the word 'Untitled' tend to turn you off?
How do you go about choosing an appropriate title for your fic? Song titles, catchy phrases?
What about sharing story titles with a well-known author? So many fics out there. It has to happen more often than not.
Share your thoughts, please :-)
--P
Titles can be very eye catching, and sometimes I need that stimulus (can I call it this?) to attract my attention.
Witty, clever, thought provoking -- anything really. I just need to make that connection.
To me, there is nothing worse than a poorly titled fic. Does anyone else share these sentiments?
Do poor titles affect your judgement? Does the word 'Untitled' tend to turn you off?
How do you go about choosing an appropriate title for your fic? Song titles, catchy phrases?
What about sharing story titles with a well-known author? So many fics out there. It has to happen more often than not.
Share your thoughts, please :-)
--P
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Date: 2004-07-17 11:54 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2004-07-17 11:58 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2004-07-17 12:22 pm (UTC)I'm horrid at titles. Absolutely horrific. I'd number fics if I could. When pushed, I've taken them from appropriate songs (but never the song title, I find that cheesy and it tends to indicate songfics, most of which are crap), from poetry, and I'm a fan of the one-word title a little too often. Ah, thesaurus, how I love thee. Very rarely will a fic gain a title without angst from me.
And I TRY to pick something original, but that's very difficult sometimes. Just like particular phrases in well-known fics, they're easily to steal if you're not thinking about it properly.
As for other people's titles... well, I'm mildly put off by "Untitled" as well - I figure if you can't even make the effort to title your work then the contents probably aren't great. Not always true, I know. I don't like song titles as fic titles, for the reason mentioned above. An intelligent sounding title is more likely to make me read it, as well - appropriate lines from poetry, a bit of Latin here and there.
But on the whole, I don't think it lends as much weight as the summary (something I'm also horrid at). I pick what to read by minor summary details all the time, which probably means that I'm missing out on some great stuff, but when you have limited time...
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Date: 2004-07-19 05:54 pm (UTC)That makes two of us. I don't know why, but I completely lack any ability for thinking up titles. I title all my school essays "Essay Response to Question 4" or whatever whenever I can get away with it. :D Sometimes I find great titles--in poetry, wherever--but then they never go with whatever fics are brewing in my brain, so what's the point? Sigh.
I'm with you on the song title thing. Bah. Never. Lines or phrases, certainly; poetry is excellent, foreign languages are, too. How I wish I had studied Latin instead of German.
One-word titles... can be very, very good, but can also end up being terribly juvenile, or else just corny. Even good ones, like Nym's "Shattered", suffer from confusion-- there are several fics by that name out there, and since I don't read HP/DM or whatever, finding the one specific "Shattered" that I want can be difficult. I don't care for ridiculously long titles, either (overly-long titles made in jest are another thing) as they come across as clumsy-- surely, the subconscious voice in my head whispers, if they have to name it "The When Two Hearts Meet and Bind Together", instead of something simple and short that conveys the same idea, the writing will be equally clumsy and insipid. I find this problem most often in romantically-focused stories, but then, I *read* more romantically-inclined stories, so it may be just as prevalent in humour or war-fic or what have you.
"Untitled" is fine for drabbles, ficlets, and rough drafts intended only for close-friend viewing; however, anyone publically distributing such a fic needs to think again-- I don't care if it's been through six betas, it's not finished yet if you can't even find a name to draw it all together. ((shrugs))
Mostly, though, I don't pay too much attention to titles, beyond any indications of writing quality they may contain (if it's called "When Your Alone", I'm out of here); I select by pairings, kinks/lack of, summaries. Which is why I hate the summary "I'm terrible at summaries just read it!" so very, very much. :D
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Date: 2004-07-17 12:32 pm (UTC)I agree that a title definitely has something to do with whether or not I read a fic or not. A good title can be very compelling, but probably isn't the most important factor in whether I read a story or not. A favorite author, a trusted rec or a loved pairing (as most of my favorites are very rarely written) has a lot more to do with whether I read than the title. But a particularly intriguing title can draw me in.
Untitled... it does a couple of things for me. It can indicate that a story is shorter, which I like, so if other things intrigue me, I may check out the fic. For a longer fic, though, it seems wrong to not title it. It makes it confusing to reference it if it doesn't have a title. So as much as I want to avoid titling stuff, if it's more than a ficlet I'm posting in my LJ and leaving there, I'll force myself to come up with something.
I seem to have patterns with my titles... "Something AND Something" is a format I've used more than once. Expectations and Responsibilities, Trust and Nothing... I seem to have two ficlets entitled "Mine" and recall wanting to title soemthing that recently before realizing three fics with the same name (even if one exists nowhere but my LJ archives) was really not acceptable. One-word titles are another big one for me. Or four-word titles that somehow refer to the topic of the story. "That Little Slytherin Boy," "What's Supposed to Be," "Nothing Like the Daydreams," "Another Sort of Evil." Usually when I use those, it comes from skimming the story and latching onto a concept or idea that recurs a couple of times.
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Date: 2004-07-17 12:39 pm (UTC)Of my own fic, yes. It depends. I have a fic where I so gave it the wrong title and I just cringe everytime I catch sight of it in my fic directory. ("Hurt No More" *cringe*). I think the fic is all right, but it didn't get much fb, and I think part of the problem was the cringeworthy title (OK, OK, the fic was boring and melodramatic, as well).
How do you go about choosing an appropriate title for your fic? Song titles, catchy phrases?
Yea, and puns based on the above.
What about sharing story titles with a well-known author? So many fics out there. It has to happen more often than not.
It's happened to me, but not often. I wouldn't do it on purpose. If it happens, I don't really care.
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Date: 2004-07-17 12:40 pm (UTC)Personally, I agonize over titles, even the subtitles of each chapter of my WIPs (which I always title). A fic title says a lot about the content and style, often, which makes it important to get right. In fact, I may have gotten wrong on my first fic (my WIP), which irks me slightly - it started out as a humor fic and has an appropraite title for such... but then it developed into a angsty/funny WIP and the title may put people off, I think.
You've raised an interesting issue, though. I'm glad to see it, as it has me thinking.
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Date: 2004-07-17 12:43 pm (UTC)Also, if a title looks like it's straining too much to attain an alliterive, consonant or assonant quality, I'll think it overdone.
Myself, I tend to make my title either single (though I hope interesting) words, or bring in some sort of prepositional element (ie. Of Something and Something). I also on occasion use lines of poetry in my titles.
Either way, I agree; titles are a key element in the production of a Really Good Story.
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Date: 2004-07-17 12:45 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2004-07-17 12:46 pm (UTC)That view is about the same, when I make my own titles. They don't matter that much, so they come last. When the fic is finished, I look what has become of it, see if there is maybe some reoccuring topic, word or scene and ponder how I can put that into some witty One-Liner. =D Because I like One-Liners.
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Date: 2004-07-17 04:57 pm (UTC)I'm right there with you, although I do look at the author. There are some writers whose stuff I just won't touch, regardless of pairing/rating/title.
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Date: 2004-07-17 12:46 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2004-07-17 01:47 pm (UTC)A Thousand Beautiful Things is a song by Annie Lennox.
Waters of March is a song by Tom Jobim (well, that's the English translation from the Portuguese). All of the chapters in that fic have names from lyrics in that song.
I have a horrible time remembering one word titles, especially if it's an emotion or a general concept. And I even used one - Chaining - but that was my first, so...
Some words just filter away into brainless-land. Dissipation and Despair is one of my favorite fics, and I have to stop and look up the title nearly every time I mention it. But I finally know how to spell despair.
I'm more tempted to read fics with clever, long names.
BTW, I recently friended you - Hi - and I'm a transplanted Michigander (Livonia, to be exact).
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Date: 2004-07-17 02:05 pm (UTC)Second place is literary quotes and terms. Basically, I like having a familiar hook for some of my readers before they even read a single word.
I'll read untitled fics from my favorite authors. Flora, for example, often churns something out and doesn't bother with a title, which works just fine for me. However, if I'm browsing for new fic, I'm not going to read an untitled something from a new author unless it's one of my rare pairings.
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Date: 2004-07-17 01:53 pm (UTC)When I title my own fic (no HP yet), it generally ends up being something that occurred to the person whose POV I am writing from (i.e. Something To Live For... "Let me give you something to live for." and the title was born.)
To me, there is nothing worse than a poorly titled fic. Does anyone else share these sentiments?
What I consider worse is when the fic itself is terrible (IMO) - i.e. spelling Harry 'Hary' or Dumbledore 'Dumbledoor', etc. That's one way to get me to stop reading *instantly* - not knowing how to spell the characters names.
Am I On Crack?
Date: 2004-07-17 01:54 pm (UTC)(sorry about that...)
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Date: 2004-07-17 02:28 pm (UTC)Harry Potter and
Aaaaaaargh!
please don't hate me
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Date: 2004-07-17 02:30 pm (UTC)I try and title my fics with either some short line that may be important to the story/emotions, or by using a few words of song lyrics that I either associate with or inspired me to write. I don't like using song titles, as I don't write songfics and that's what I associate them with.
I'm never really concerned about sharing a fic title, probably because to my knowledge I've never personally had it happen in the same fandom anyway. It can be slightly confusing when it comes to other people's stories, but it never bothers me.
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Date: 2004-07-17 02:44 pm (UTC)Bertina
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Date: 2004-07-19 06:02 pm (UTC)the Dark Mark story
the darker version of a Dark Mark story
that Harry and Lupin story
that concubine thing
the Challenge story (or "the need-a-favour story")
"that thing on the hard drive I saw yesterday--what was it?--something about hippogriffs"
As one might have noticed, I will doubtless require a very, very good title-finding beta should I ever finish anything. :D
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Date: 2004-07-17 02:47 pm (UTC)Excessively pretentious or lame titles (and "untitled") put me off a fic, but it has to be really really bad to do that.
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Date: 2004-07-17 02:53 pm (UTC)Sharing a title doesn't bother me either.
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Date: 2004-07-17 03:19 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2004-07-17 03:48 pm (UTC)I'm glad you posted this. Even though I had joked with my beta about no one liking a fic of mine with a title that she described as, "wafting slightly of cheese," I never really thought seriously about it. Thanks for the insight.
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Date: 2004-07-17 05:03 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2004-07-17 06:04 pm (UTC)I sometimes look for odd quotes for my titles or try to come up with something descriptive. I often find the title takes the place of the summary for me, like with "Misanthropy, Lycanthropy, And The Pursuit Of Knowledge". Sometimes I'll come up with a good title and then write the fic to match it.
I'm more attracted to fic with an unusual or clever title than something plain or the dreaded "Untitled". It's a hook, just like the first line of the story.
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Date: 2004-07-17 06:06 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2004-07-17 07:10 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2004-07-17 07:41 pm (UTC)If someone doesn't title a story (or if it is titled 'Untitled'), it really doesn't affect me in an adverse manner. I've read some brilliant stories with titles that I thought were a bit pretentious or just downright silly. I've also read some wonderful stories that were untitled and it didn't take away from my enjoyment of the story. If a title is able to do that, then the story wasn't really all that much to begin with.
I wonder...do people have these types of arguments about pieces of art or music, or is it just fan fiction? I ask only because one of my favorite songs is titled 'Untitled' and it fits the lyrics and the mood perfectly. Would you not listen to a song if it were titled that?
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Date: 2004-07-17 09:00 pm (UTC)Untitled puts me off. I know that titles do take a bit of effort, but it just speaks, to me, that somebody was too lazy to bother titling their fic. And I know I'm bad and wrong for thinking this, but it's similar to somebody putting an a/n saying 'oh, this story is so crap, don't read it!' before their fic. I just--don't read it.
That said, I've recently discovered that I often forget to put summaries in front of my fics. I guess it could just be a matter of forgetting.
RE: Titling of the fic
Date: 2004-07-18 12:20 am (UTC)My other fics, Bete Noire and...well, I'll call it Summary for now just because the title isn't set in stone, came ironically enough from Dictionary.com's word of the day. I've been working on Summary for a month and that is all I am still calling it.
I guess my biggest vice (or pet peeve) when reading fanfic is when the title is so sappy, so...stupid-sounding, as well as having a crappy tongue in cheek summary (or an accompanying sappy summary) that I just gag and move on to another story. Yes, I judge a fic by its title/summary suckiness. I'm guilty.
However, 'untitled' fics make me curious. 9 times out of 10, tho, they are sucky little one-shots.
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Date: 2004-07-18 10:45 am (UTC)A lame title will turn me right off. Overused titles bug me a bit, especially if it's from the same currently popular song, but a title that says, essentially, that the author didn't want to bother with coming up with a better title have about the same effect on me as netspeak in a summary. I'd rather see the ten millionth story titled "Aftermath" than "Snape Story (i suck at titles)"
As for me, I usually steal my titles the same place I steal my pseuds: From Christopher Marlowe. If a title doesn't spontaneously erupt from the writing process, I usually fall back on Marlowe because I'm a bit of an obsessed freak and know where to look for passages in his works that fit the theme of my story. When I was trying to come up with a title for "One Bare Hour," I went to the end of Dr. Faustus because I knew I needed something about ends and time running out, and I found the perfect line "Now hast thou but one bare hour to live." For another story, I was talking a lot about writing and love, etc., and found a passage from Tamburlaine about someone's love being unexpressable even if all the thoughts of every poet who ever lived were distilled, and got "All the Pens That Ever Poets Held."
A side effect is that I don't often find myself sharing titles, something that I actually make a bit of effort to avoid. It's impossible to avoid it altogether, but at a minimum I try to search and make sure I'm not duplicating any titles within the fandom. It's just too confusing to have multiple stories with the same title, and I need all the help I can get. :)
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Date: 2004-07-18 11:08 am (UTC)Titling is hard ... but I see it as common courtesy. If a writer can't even be bothered to come up with a title in my experience they didn't put a lot off effort in it anyway. And seeing how many WIP's I am reading (and I am sure I'm not the only one) I'd get to confused if I would read untitled ones as well. If a title is lame or really cool doesn't affect me most of the times - if a title seems seriously inane, I won't read (but can't think of an example here).
As for my own fics - most of my titles would fall into the "lame" category I think.
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Date: 2004-07-18 11:25 am (UTC)'Untitled', to me, signifies a short, throwaway story, but that doesn't mean bad quality. I will be more likely to admire an untitled story than something that sounds like it should be prefaced with the words 'Monty Python'.
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Date: 2004-07-18 11:39 am (UTC)And some stories were written just so I could *use* a specific title.
Mostly, my titles come from lines of songs or poems or quotes or some variation thereof ("Such Corruptions Out of Such Sweet Things" is an inversion of a line from Walt Whitman). Sometimes they're directly related to the fic ("Razor's Edge," "Ladyfingers"), sometimes they're ridiculously oblique unless you're privy to my thought process.
When I first started writing fic, I was very much with the one-word titles, but they're very lacking in interest, so I try not to do that much anymore.
What about sharing story titles with a well-known author? So many fics out there. It has to happen more often than not
It's not the fact that the *author* is well-known so much as the *title* is - I had a story I was calling "Because It Is Bitter, and Because It Is My Heart" (from a Stephen Crane poem), but I *knew* there was a well-known West Wing story with that title (and it turns out, an XF one and a BtVS one etc.), so even though my story wasn't West Wing, I changed the title before I posted (to "How Bitter a Thing" from er, As You Like It, iirc).
But I have stories called stuff like "Comfort" and "Confrontations" and "Enough" which are so generic I think many people would have used them.
If someone else wrote a story and called it "The Intimate Art of the Close Shave" or "Love in the Traffic-Choked Streets," I might be a little put out, because I thought those were pretty unique.
Otherwise, I'm pretty neutral on other people's titles. Summary, author and pairing are more likely to attract or repel my attention.
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Date: 2004-07-18 12:18 pm (UTC)I have to agree that Untitled puts me off, but bad titles don't - I know that mine have pretty much been not so great as well. I mean, my last three pieces were Moonstone, Sibling Rivalry, and Snozzberry Sauce. Not very exciting. Therefore, if something has a one word title that's not wonderful, I'll still read it most of the time.
I will, however, read untitled pieces if they're by favorite authors...because I'll read anything by favorite authors.
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Date: 2004-07-18 12:38 pm (UTC)I happen to enjoy titling things... it's my only skill, and it's fun to play around with. I often have the title before I have the story, which I gather is not the usual way of doing things. Then again, I come from the college of non-sequitur titles and summaries, which certainly isn't popular with a huge number of people. If I'm looking for a title, I generally turn to free-association. I've pilfered from songs, books, mythology, the Bible, classic literature, poetry, magazines, and Stephen King.
Seriously, people. The title's the fun part. I don't see why everyone gets so bent out of shape about it.
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Date: 2004-07-18 02:05 pm (UTC)For my own purposes, though I'm not prolific, I can't write and post without a title. It stems from my high school experience in essay contests, where you were flatly disqualfied from the competition without titles. I title first, even if I change it later. If I don't have a title in mind (inspired by a lyric or line from a poem, generally) I use the old standard: "This, That and the Other Thing." Someday I'll actually use that title and have to find a new standard.
However, I don't read untitled fic outside of drabbles. If you didn't care enough about it to name it, you likely didn't care enough to spell check, either. I want some assurance you put a modicrum of effort into it.
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Date: 2004-07-18 02:08 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2004-07-18 03:06 pm (UTC)No. I go by pairing, author, summary that catches my eye, rec. Half the time I can't remember the fic's title by the time I write the feedback.
When writing, I sometimes struggle endlessly with the title, only to come up with something stupid. But at other times the title suddenly comes to me half-way through, and at still other times I have the title before I have the fic. Those two latter instances are helpful for writing the fic, I find: the titles keep me on track.
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Date: 2004-07-18 03:48 pm (UTC)As for titling my own fics - it's a bastard. Really, the title and summary are my biggest obstacle. I'd love to name all my fics 'Untitled - I'll get back to you', but alas, that would be annoying. But likewise, I'm not going to stress myself out over something that I find fun - if someone doesn't read my fic because of the title, then so be it. I'm very easy going when it comes to HP fandom. :)
[here via four_lobsters]
Date: 2004-07-19 09:13 am (UTC)And if I'm reading others, I always use the summary as a judgement on if I'll read it or not, never the titles
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Date: 2004-07-19 01:37 pm (UTC)I envy and admire a good title. Choosing a title (at least for me) tends to be like bumping into things in the dark. Until I hit on it, I never really know. "Snape's first day of teaching" became "Reactions" when
Either it happens or it doesn't, but I would rather see a stupid title than no title at all. Suffer like me, damnit! ;)