Keeper of the Superfluous Es!

*winks* Thank you!

grrliz made it for me.

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did you note this in your icon comments? as long as you did then snagging it is just wrong

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No. And I shouldn't have to. My icon page is not a fucking free for all.

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well, as most people use icons made by icon-makers for anyone who wants to use them, it's natural to assume, when looking at someone's userpics, that as long as they credit the original maker it's ok to use the icon. i don't mind putting 'please do not take' on some of the icons i use, if they're just for me - it's when people take them anyway that there's a problem.

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Sorry, but I disagree. You don't take shit that doesn't belong to you, unless it was specifically stated that the icons were grabbable.

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see, that's the problem - the vast majority of icons floating around on LJ *are*grabbable - people don't know something 'belongs' to you unless you say it does

if you think you have it bad, consider a friend of mine who had her default icon, which she made just for herself (& stated as much on her userpics page), stolen...the person claimed that they got it from someone else, & said that, well, they were just going to continue to use it despite just having been told it was for her personal use only & asked to cease and desist. that is just wrong.

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Hmmm... I'd more say that it's just plain wrong to take stuff that isn't yours UNLESS you HAVE expressed permission to take it. If someone makes icons for other people to use, they typically write "Feel free to use these!" Sometimes they write "Use freely, but please give credit." And some say, "Please ask permission to use." But unless you have permission, just don't take it!

And I think

themostepotente was saying that the only place this icon existed was on her icon page, or where SHE used it herself. That's very different from an icon-maker posting it in a post that says "Look at all these icons I made!"

I had one of my primary user icons taken from me... and it was a PHOTO of my ex-girlfriend and me kissing. However, we were in costume as Harry and Draco... so someone decided that it was a H/D icon, free for the taking... and that person was displaying a photo of ME as her icon. Suffice to say, I was pissed. And no, she never asked permission.

The final Word: Don't take it if someone didn't say you could!

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sorry, but general icon ettiquette dictates that, if an icon is for your personal use only, you should note that...otherwise people will assume it's up for grabs. in this case, the icon didn't have anyone's name on it, didn't have personal photos, etc. the fact that it was made by grrliz, who's a very well-known icon maker, only supports the assumption that it was a gackable icon, given the lack of a simple 'do not take' anywhere

just because you're using certain icons does not mean it's up to you to grant people permission to use them. if they originally came from an icon post or whatever, then no one needs to ask your permission. the only case in which they *do* need to ask permission would be if an icon was made just for you (or you made it just for yourself), and how would anyone know if it was unless you note that?

basically, it's much easier for me to put 'do not take' on the 2 icons in my userpics that are not gackable than to put 'feel free to use!' on the 80 that are. logic.

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Hmmm... logic = shift key, too... but whatever.

"just because you're using certain icons does not mean it's up to you to grant people permission to use them. if they originally came from an icon post or whatever, then no one needs to ask your permission. the only case in which they *do* need to ask permission would be if an icon was made just for you (or you made it just for yourself), and how would anyone know if it was unless you note that?"

If the icon originally came from an icon post, you would know by asking, "Hey, where did you get that icon?" If an icon was made just for one individual, you would know by asking, "Hey, is that icon up for grabs?" In other words, it would just make sense that you should get the icon from the original creator, and therefore, you should ask the user for the source. If the source was a free-grab icon post, then that's great. If not, then that person needs to ask the person who created the icon whether or not he or she can use it. If the icon was a gift for one person, then both the creator AND the recipient would have to give permission... just like fanart.

Maybe icon etiquette is different from common manners in the rest of the world. I always felt that common good manners meant to ask for something before you took it. For example, if you see an old bicycle on someone's lawn, do you assume that it's out there for you to take? It LOOKS like it's old and unused. It LOOKS like it might have even been left out for the garbage man. However, unless there's a sign on it that says, "Free to whoever wants it!", it's not up for grabs.

The person who took the photo-icon of my ex and me kissing each other claimed that it didn't look like a regular photo, or that it was a really well-done photo-manip of Dan Radcliffe and Tom Felton. As far as I was concerned, that wasn't the point. The point was that she took something I made without asking for it. To me, that's the same thing as taking fanart or re-distributing fanfic without the artist's or author's permission. "I've seen that art everywhere!" is not a valid excuse, nor is "But this fic is on tons of archives!"

So, I guess I've been disillusioned. The icon community doesn't follow the same standards of etiquette as the rest of the world, nor even the rest of the fandom. So sad.

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dude, you're going after me for not capitalising letters? on a blog on the internet? wow. that's, like, the definition of 'petty'.

it's very simple: if an icon is not free for the taking, note it. that very simple act would avoid all of this. yet you are under the impression that, just because something appears on your userpics page (which is open for anyone to see), you are the guardian of it & everyone must ask your permission. well, if it's yours & only yours, yes, they should. you indicate this in userpic comments. if it's not yours & only yours, no one needs to ask your permission for anything. you're just using it; it doesn't belong to you.

it's not like the old bicycle, because there's only one of the bicycle, whereas icons can be used by an infinite number of people simultaneously.

as a person with icons on her userpics page people could potentially want to use for themselves, and as an icon maker, i would not want people to be e-mailing me every time they see something i'm using, or see something i've made. (and i'm not even popular! imagine what poor liz would have to go through!) if i make an icon for someone, it's up to them to note that it's only for their use. if it gets taken, it's an issue to be resolved between those 2 people, not the icon maker. most of us will tell you this.

i didn't make up the rules. in fact, there *are* no rules. this is just the way it is, and it's been that way since long before i got here. i'm sorry if you think it's rude. i'm sorry someone stole your personal icon, but, once again, all this could have been avoided by typing out a few simple words.

and since all you seem interested in is insulting me & arguing with me, i'm done here. i don't even know you, but penny is my friend, she asked a question, and i was honest. i've asked others and they agree with me on the whole icon-sharing business. if penny had said 'this is mine' or 'do not take', and someone took it anyway? i would join the rest of you in getting the torches & pitchforks. but she didn't.

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fiona-fawkes.livejournal.com

I hate the fact that you pretty much have to label all of your icons with DO NOT STEAL!!!, or else it's your own fault. The least people could do is ask after an icon that they're eyeing. Sometimes, they might get lucky.

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Exactly! Would it have been so fucking hard to shoot me a quick email? I've had the icon for 4 years.

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painless-j.livejournal.com

Annoys me to no end! But keeps happening. I don't understand it. If you come to, say, a friend's house, see a book there, what do you do? Grab it without saying a word and leave? No. Then why the fuck do you grab icons from other people's icon page in userinfo or their posts? If it's not an icon-sharing post? Sorry, hon, rhetoric led me astray :/

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A-fucking-men!

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caretta.livejournal.com

There are plenty of icon-makers who make snitch icons—and even then, people can find pictures and make their own! There's no need to steal customized snitch icons. And that's what it is—THEFT. What is the point in that?

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People are inconsiderate.

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mahaliem.livejournal.com

I'm sorry this happened to you. I like to think that it's done only by newbies, but often it isn't.

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Eh, it's all right. I'm over it now. But people really need to learn to fucking ask first.

*snuzzes*

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magicofisis.livejournal.com

I've posted on this very subject at least three times. There are plenty of good icons posted in icon communities that are up for grabs - and there are even communities where you can request something specific if you want it. I have asked people for icons plenty of times and been told 'no' and I totally respect that. It's just plain rude.

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I've been told no as well. And I can dig that. Now, I probably would have said yes, but I don't appreciate not being asked. That's really the crux of my anger.

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kaiz.livejournal.com

I hear you. It's happened to me. I don't generally 'mind' but it would have been nice to be asked first, you know?

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Exactly. What is so hard about asking? I probably would have said yes! It's the lack of courtesy that bothers me.

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robriki.livejournal.com

Eh, people are morons.

*see icon*

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*chuckles* Nice icon!

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accioslash.livejournal.com

I have to admit that I'm a complete icon whore. If I see an icon I like, I always ask permission before I take it. But I can't tell you how many times someone says they can't remember where they got the icon/who made it and I'll still use it if they don't mind.

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Yes, but you ask permission. Therein lies the difference.

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Hehe... I love your icon. I don't want the icon, but may I carve my Halloween pumpkin to match it?

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accioslash.livejournal.com

Absolutely! It's amazing how much Halloween candy I get to keep for myself each year since I started making these. ;D

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shiv5468.livejournal.com

Always ask, because having your fingers broken may sting.

I've had loads of people ask me for my default icon, and I'm happy to share provided the orignator gets credited. It was my birthday present, but it'd feel wrong to be selfish about it. On the other hand I've seen it turn up in places where it had no business being and without credit, and that's just plain rude.

What you need is one that goes This icon is FUCKING MINE

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I'm a nice girl, really. I don't mind sharing at all. But fercrissakes, when I'm only an email or an IM away, FUCKING. ASK. ME.

Gah!!! And for reasons unknown to me, it is always the Snape/Black icons.

Really stupid question. Is that your default icon? *G*

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shiv5468.livejournal.com

Oh yes.

He regulalry freaks people out when he winks at them.

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I've just seen another post on my f-list about icons - it made me stop and go WTF? 'Someone' is using icons of HP artwork without crediting an artist, never mind the fact they also didn't ask permission to use said artwork. I am simply...gob smacked. How it is any different from taking someone's fic and archiving it without permission?

*dismayed*

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As far as I'm concerned, it's no different at all. But apparently people don't feel that icons have to follow the same rules of etiquette as the rest of the fandom... or the world, for that matter. *sigh*

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What upsets me most of all is that I don't know of any author, including the one in question, who would lie down and take such treatment. It's not right that fandom treats artists as second class citizens.

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Exactly. It's not right to treat icon makers or fanartists like second class citizens... but some people still don't feel that they're doing any harm by using an icon because, to paraphrase, making copies of an icon doesn't take it away from the original user/creator. But making copies of a fanfic or piece of fanart doesn't take it away from anyone, either. Still, people create a complete uproar if someone posts someone else's fic (with OR without credit to the author) without permission. Why should people just expect to have their icons copied and re-used unless they say otherwise?

I write fic, draw fan-art, AND occasionally make icons. I just assumed that people should treat all creative works with the same respect - ASK before you take!

*sigh* Does this mean I have to go put warning labels on all my old icons? What about my artwork?

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I've been on the receiving end several times of having fics of mine coped and archived without my permission - once or twice with my name removed. I know how I felt about it - bloody angry. I can understand how people might see little harm in taking a publicity photo that's been made into an icon, but I cannot get my head around copying a piece of original art, making an icon out of it, then using it for every chapter of a multi-chaptered fic and only asking who the artist might be AFTER the fic has completed posting.

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that? is just wrong. any time i icon someone's art i ask for permission first, & i always remind people, once i post the icons, that they *must* credit the artist.

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It';s common sense, isn't it? Well, apparently not to everyone.

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It's not any different, love. As if you even needed me to confirm that.

How are you and that baby doing? <333

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Hi!

Me and Thea are doing well. She has a second cold (poor thing) and I spend many a happy hour getting bogies out of her nose with a bit of damp cotton wool!

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amanuensis1.livejournal.com

The world of the ask-permission-first icon ganker:

Icon ganker: May I use this icon?
Two out of three times: Sure, be my guest.
One out of three times: No, please, that's for my own personal use.
Foiled a third of the time.

The world of the no-permission icon-ganker:

Icon ganker: *grabs icon, uses*
Nineteen times out of twenty: *nothing happens*
Twentieth time out of twenty: Icon owner: Hey, please don't take my icon. Icon ganker: Oh, I'm sorry. *stops using*
Foiled a twentieth of the time.

Easier to get forgiveness than permission.

Disclaimer: These statistics are not based on peer-review research or research at all, actually. ^_^

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Easier to get forgiveness than permission.

Sad, but unfortunately true. Thanks for putting that into perspective, doll. *snuzzes*

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amanuensis1.livejournal.com

One is still entitled to be "NOT EFFING AGAIN!" pissed over it, though. :D

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This is true, of course. People keep stealing my Snape/Black icons for God only knows what reason. And it will always piss me the fuck off.

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judas-iscariot.livejournal.com

Hm. The only way I end up snagging an icon from someone's LJ user pics is if they credit someone else, I follow the path back to the maker, and I request permission from the person who made it. Just because someone credits another person for making the icon doesn't mean that the maker wanted me to use it. Most people don't even mind if you don't credit as long as you comment. I always assume that they want me to do both, that way I don't get into any trouble.

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See, I'm just the opposite. I always credit and never comment.

BTW - Is that Brian Molko in your icon, dear?

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red-rahl.livejournal.com

Arrrgh! I know exactly what you mean about the icon taking. I have a habit of making all of my own icons from my artwork, so I come to think of a few as specifically representing me. And then I came across a person using my very special-just-for-me icon and boy, that was not pleasant. I even had the "Please don't take" notation on my user pic page. !_!

Sadly, the stamping of your own personal name seems to be the best deterrent. *hugs*

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